[jacobystealshome]

It's ridiculous how so many are saying that Bonds should get in eventually. How can you let Bonds in without letting McGwire in? McGwire at least admitted it all and moved on. Bonds has yet to admit anything and still tries to deny all the accusations. He and Clemens both sat in front of a congressional board and lied, got off, and still deny their cheating. They never deserve to get in the HOF in my opinion...they are both more of a disgrace to the game in comparison to other cheaters who at least admitted it.

that's easy: bonds, before steroids, had HOF numbers, mcgwire, even with steroids, is a borderline candidate

[dougnash]

You almost can't let Clemens or Bonds in. That's a real slippery slope. You open the door for everyone else (Palmeiro, Sosa, etc). Whether or not they put up HOF numbers pre-steroids is irrelevant. I've never seen the "he was a model citizen before he shot his neighbor in the face" defense work before. Except maybe for OJ....

Either way there are a TON of big names coming up in the next 5 years.

[mfisher27]

It would be so disrespectful and appalling to let Bonds and Clemens in...EVER. I dont care what their numbers were or whatever. I also hate these horrible new made up stats that try to make players look better than they really are, i.e. Felix Hernandez winning the Cy Young award with 13 wins...13!!!! Im not saying the pitcher with the most wins should win but c'mon, what do people know Cy Young for? 511 wins. Back to the HOF, I dont get why there has to be at least one first ballot guy every year. Dont force something, if they were really a first ballot guy, we wouldnt have so much indecision. Being a first ballot HOF means you had the stats and were a dominant force for an extended amount of time, not like a Don Mattingly. If some of these guys get in, the Baseball Hall of Fame would start turning in the Football Hall of Fame which has become an absolute joke over the years.

[jacobystealshome]

I also hate these horrible new made up stats that try to make players look better than they really are, i.e. Felix Hernandez winning the Cy Young award with 13 wins...13!!!! Im not saying the pitcher with the most wins should win but c'mon, what do people know Cy Young for? 511 wins.

wins is one of the least important stats when it comes to pitchers

also, if cy young pitched today, in an era if specialized pitchers, 5 man rotations, limited pitch counts, etc - he would have won 245 games

also, sabermetrics kicks the rear end of traditional stats, by a lot. they are not "made up", they just arent for the intellectually challenged

[elberson]

I'm going bonds and biggio

[evolb909]

I think Piazza has a legitimate chance at first ballot, Biggio has an outside shot also. Trammell, Jack Morris and McGriff I believe get in eventually although McGriff only got 18% of the vote last year. I can't believe guys like David Wells, Tim Raines and Kenny Lofton are even mentioned. It aint the Hall of Pretty Good. Al Oliver and Dave Parker are way better candidates than those 3 guys.

[Drudkh]

I think Piazza for sure and maybe Biggio. I want Shawn Green to get in but it more than likely won't happen.

[mfisher27]

wins is one of the least important stats when it comes to pitchers

also, if cy young pitched today, in an era if specialized pitchers, 5 man rotations, limited pitch counts, etc - he would have won 245 games

also, sabermetrics kicks the rear end of traditional stats, by a lot. they are not "made up", they just arent for the intellectually challenged

Ok to start things off, don’t even try to compare Cy Young into today’s stats, he pitched then, not now. That would be the first thing that is wrong with your last post.

Also, as a former College Baseball pitcher and being able to take care of my academics (major in Economics as well a Major in Business Management) and helping the college community through various volunteer organizations such as being a Student Government Senator (actually elected to the Cabinet), a Co-Chair of the Red Flag Campaign, a Fraternity President for 2 years in a row, leading to the rebuilding of the fraternity, all within just 4 years. I would beg to differ that wins are one of the least important stats. If you had read what I said “I’m not saying the pitcher with the most wins should win but c'mon…” I simply said they have a lot of weight but are not the end all be all in stats. I don’t know, maybe the statement was too “intellectually challenging” for some. I could really care less about some of the new stats. To me, there are a handful of important stats for pitchers. Including, but not limited to, Wins, ERA, Innings Pitched, and Opponents BA. I don’t need to know all the different ranges, factors, of scores to know who is the best pitcher in the League. Those seem to be reserved for the desk jockeys that never really played anything, or never amounted to anything athletically. I hope I didn’t make any of this to intellectually challenging for you because I would hate to post something that is so intellectually challenging that some members may not be able to understand.
If this is all too much to take in, or intellectually challenging, I’m sure you’ll post a response that I will have to correct since it seems you are not able to understand what I am saying.

Thanks, mfisher27

[Vols-1]

really. his numbers werent good enough to get in the hof by themselves. not before the roids

as a sidescript: dan duquette was right: he was in the twilight of his career. but then ro-gah took roids

Clemens would have got in because of the hardware like Koufax, three Cy Youngs and an MVP award with Boston.