[xstreaminsanity]

Actually, I don't think it would necessarily be a bad thing. Take for instance what has so far been voted (in my poll) as the best product of 2010-11...Donruss and Totally Certified. Both started at about $80 a box, Donruss has come down quite a bit and Totally Certified is slowly coming down (from what I've seen). The companies have put more GU and AU in higher end products, and even lower products, but they're crappy GU and AU to say the least. Top 15 RC AU is better than top 50 (it seems that they do about 50 at times). Yeah, there are some players in history that were out of the top 15 that are worth it, but not even close to every year. Also, except for maybe higher end products, like National Treasures, Timeless treasures, and Elite Black Box, the base should not have a parallel with a GU or AU (my opinion). I think, and I could be wrong, nobody would have a problem if Donruss was $60 a box and there were 10,000 copies of each base card (I don't know what the actual print run is, just a guess). And then you have Gold Standard /299, Elite Black Box and National Treasures /99 (I think Timeless Treasures was /199, not sure). Maybe you can even drop Gold Standard and Timeless Treasures to /99 and Elite Black Box and National Treasures down to /50 (that might be too limited) and raise the price $25-50 bucks (but lose all of the GU and AU parallel with the same print run and crappy rookies). Flood the market with lower end products where kids can actually get them (with lawn cutting, babysitting or birthday money - exception that one kid on youtube who bust all the high stuff) and then for the "investors" or people that want high end, give them something worth buying. No, they don't have LeBron and Jordan, but even still, not everyone collects just those two players. But don't flood the market with Kobe, Durant, Wall, Griffin and Turner AU, have them JUST as limited (but since they're your spokes people, they should have NO sticker AU). And cut back the number of products released each year if you have to. I could have done without Playoff Contenders this year, as well as Longevity (waste if you ask me). There is a way to "fix" this hobby, not that I know what it is because I'm not in marketing nor sales, but there's a way for everyone to be happy.

Also, I don't think Panini, UD or Topps (or any other card manufacturer) should worry so much about the secondary market. Their goal is not really to put something valuable in our hands as much as it is to make profit. However, they have to understand that if they bring down the market the way they're doing it now, they'll no longer be making profit. Is there a reset button on the hobby? lol.

[dodgytrousers]

But if the value is not there then no one will buy them. The 1990's boxes were cheaper even than the prices you were mentioning but the result was volume and a pricing bubble that burst and nearly wiped out the hobby. Sure Jordan and some Kobe's have gone up in value but 99% of the other cards have not.

The pool of collectors now is probably 5%-10% of what it was at its peak in the 90's. There is plenty of cheap retails product available at Target, K-Mart, Walmart and dollar store but today's collectors don't want that retail stuff unless there is no choice. The reality is that the card companies make more money by doing multiple short printed products per year than swamping the market with cheap product that has no value to it. It is what collectors demand.

I don't know why everything thinks the hobby is broken. I think it is doing just fine. If you enter the hobby because you think you will make it big by hitting huge cards in every pack then you are sadly mistaken but there still has to be some incentive to buy packs, boxes or cases otherwise the hobby will die. The hobby has evolved over time and it is different than it was in the 90's and that is good.

I like to see new people enter the hobby but I don't see the need to be the huge national hobby craze that card collecting once was because all that did was lead to over production of cards and a reduction in value. I think the hobby has a good core base of collectors and we are large enough to have 3 big companies, and a few smaller one, to produce cards for us; yet we are small enough that cards still have some value and are not grossly over produced. It is funny when we think that a rookie auto numbered out of 299 is over produced. It really isn't; it is more than the particular rookie is not highly regarded or collected and therefore no one wants to collect him. It could be numbered out of /49 and still wouldn't be worth much. It is hardly the card companies fault that the NBA only produces perhaps one player each rookie year that stand out enough to excite the card collectors out there. Produce another draft like 1996-97 or 2003-04 and then watch those rookie autos /299 get snapped up as quickly as the eBay auctions can be listed.

[xstreaminsanity]

I feel like the hobby is breaking because aside from the people I trade with, it seems more people are in this hobby for the investment rather than the collecting. I don't mind cards being sold in the LCS, on eBay, here or elsewhere. If you don't want the card, get something for it. But when you see people buy something on eBay to turn it right around to try and flip it (I'm not talking about those who do it occasionally because they got a good deal, but those that do it on almost every item) it feels that they don't really care about collecting, just reaping the benefits of us actual collectors (I know my dad would if he could). I wish more people looked forward to pulling a LeBron, Jordan, Kobe, or anyone else to keep in their collection and maybe sell later. But it seems more people ask about what products to buy where they are likely to pull a specific person's AU (mainly Jordan and LeBron) and then you see them pull it and put it right on the bay. I wish I didn't have to worry about getting a box before someone else that's going to list everything on the bay right away. I'd rather that person buy that box and try to trade first, not immediately think of the money side of it. That's my personal opinion.

[ManuGinobili]

About redemptions:
Can someone tell me when redemptions expire for the 2009/2010 Panini cards? I guess I should be fine if I buy some stuff and get a redemption, right? (Meaning, not expired by now)

[buckunteer]

About redemptions:
Can someone tell me when redemptions expire for the 2009/2010 Panini cards? I guess I should be fine if I buy some stuff and get a redemption, right? (Meaning, not expired by now)

Not sure about Panini, but I pulled a redemption out of an 09-10 UD product about a month ago and it had expired in September, so don't be so sure

Redemptions are a necessary evil. I think for specialized products, like those 1/1 gold cards from gold standard this year, it's great. As for the aforementioned redemption that had expired from UD, it was an Al Horford auto. It was only 2 months expired but it wasn't worth the fight to maybe get it or something of equal value because it's just not a great card. Had I pulled the Garnett spokesman auto, on the other hand, I would have fought tooth and nail to get it and/or a replacement.

In short, redemptions are a pain, and they need to become more selective with what is redeemed to make it worth the wait or collectors will become increasingly frustrated. Incidentally, I also think the redemptions for packs/boxes would be wildly popular if it became a bit more common, but as you all know I'm particularly fond of busting the wax haha.