[penguinfan66]

Personally, I like the designs of elite. I think that the problem is THE COLLECTORS. Everyone is so hung up on needing fantastic patches and autographs that they've gotten away from what my opinion is the most important part of the Hobby... collecting cards that LOOK great.

In my humble opinion, I love that Panini have put alot of thought and effort into their GORGEOUS insert sets. I really miss collecting beautiful insert cards that won't cost me an arm and a leg.

Elite is an awesome product, because not only do they deliver some hits, but just about EVERY pack has a nice looking insert or parallel.

Alot better than opening packs of Black Diamond, SPA or Series 1, Half of the packs have nothing but base. Even when they have inserts, they are plain and ugly (Hockey Heroes, All World team, essentials, etc....)

The problem is that COLLECTORS drive the value of these inserts down, because without an Auto or Patch, no one is willing to pay anything more than $0.99 on ebay for them.

It sickens me that the hobby has gotten to this point, aesthetic appeal counts for ZERO anymore. All that counts are Autos and Patches.

For shame...

I actually pulled a couple of cards I liked(penguins rookies /10....joe V.) but.....
I probably should buy packs of stuff before buying a whole box though....I'd be much better off taking the money I spent on the box and buy Penguins I want...I've done this before...I think I am a bit of an addicted to busting wax/boxes or I'd just buy singles I need instead more often.

I think busting wax a lot of times is as smart as trading a 100.00 bill for a 20.00 bill & 2 5.00 bills(heck at times that "deal" might be better).

While I respect not collecting for the money(and I dont really) most of us want some value for the money( at least at the time of purchase)...

[adamslogik]

I understand wanting value for the money, but I agree with the point already made that collectors are who is making the cards worthless. They are only worth what WE are paying for them. When people buy a whole case and are willing to sell their cards at a loss just to recoup some cash quickly, that hurts the values.

There will be some players that say "they are only worth whatever people are willing to pay for them" which is true, BUT what people are willing to pay for them is always based on past sales (i.e.: Why would I pay $20 for a card I know sold last week for $10). THERE is the problem, if you pay $100 for a box, as a seller, and then go turn around and sell the contents for $75, you just lowered the value for everyone.

The fact is that companys like UD and Panini need to BUY the game used Jerseys they cut up for cards, and they need to PAY players to sign. They also need to pay the cost to design, produce, market, and ship the cards + pay their employees.

Of course they want to make a profit, but I guarantee you the mark up is probably not too bad considering.

The fact is, people are actually screwing themselves, by settling on the quick money rather than the right money, and that drives the entire market down so that EVERYONE has to sell cards for the same price just to keep up.

Base jersey cards of star players are selling for a couple of bucks, which quite literally is below the cost it took to produce some of them.

So called "collectors" who are buying huge amounts of product and then selling them for pennies on the dollar just to recoup their losses as quickly as possible to buy the next case, or pay their bills even sometimes, are killing values.

Do they make it nice to be able to pick up some pieces of your PC for cheap, of course. Don't kid yourself though, in the long run, they are reducing the value of every card in your PC, because in the future your cards will still be worth only pennies on the dollar to the next collector.

I collect for fun, and my view of it is that buying boxes or packs is like going to the casino. Only gamble with money that you have already and can afford to lose. If you start spending money you can't afford, and gamble away the mortgage payment, then you do silly things to get it back (like hit a pawn shop or ebay and pawn some cherrished collectables for a fraction of what you paid for them)

From another angle, look at it like Walmart (bear with me, I'm going somewhere with this, lol). Walmart moves into a community, and uses their buying power to buy TONS of merchandise. Because they place such large orders, there price per unit is reduced. For example: If I order 4 TV's for my small local electronics store from Samsung, they may cost me $500 each, and I can sell them for $600 and make a profit. Whereas Walmart places and order for 400 of the same TV, the cost will be $400 each and they can afford to sell them for $450 each and still turn a decent profit due to the volume they sell (if you sell 400 of something, even at half the profit you are still making some nice coin). The problem is, that now everyone in the community thinks that the price of a Samsung TV should be $450, and the small guys suffer.

It's kind of the same thing with people who buy cases of product and then liquidate over ebay.

If I buy a pack of SPGU, my cost is $30, someone who buys an entire case may be able to reduce their price per pack to $20 (not exact numbers). IN so doing, they are able to sell something like a base jersey card for cheaper, and not take a loss. The value is relative to the amount purchased.

So all of these people who are buying cases just to sell them, are mostly interested in getting all of their big hits sold for as much as possible, and then just sell off what is left at a fraction of the price because they are basically worthless to them. Whereas to someone who just bought one pack of SPGU at $30, and hit a Taylor Hall Jersey, might think that card a little more valuable since it is their only hit from a $30 pack. Whereas if you buy a box, you would consider the "Hit" the best card in the box and everything else like the jersey cards become less valuable to you, and if you buy a whole case, the jersey cards become worthless, and usually get sold as such.

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO BELIEVES THAT EVEN BASE HITS FROM A 30 PACK SHOULD BE WORTH MORE THAN THOSE FROM A 5 PACK?

I mean, how can you justify opening a $450 tin of the cup and then selling even the smaller hits for under $20? If I buy a blue Corrolla for $20 000, and you buy a blue lexus for $80 000, once we get them home and drive them, should we both sell them for $15 000 in a year? Why not, they are both used cars, they are both blue, same thing, right? NO... Well then why is a Bobby Orr Auto /50 from the Cup (average price of $75 a card) selling on ebay for the same as a Bobby Orr Auto from SPA (Average price of $0.75 a card). Yes, they are both Bobby Orr Autos, and Yes, they are both /50 but one is printed on premium card stock, hand packed and packaged in a collectible tin... AND RETAILING FOR 10X the price!!!

I just don't get the way people are thinking I guess.

THAT is where the problem lies, because one person can afford to sell their base jersey cards for a buck or 2, everyone else online sets that as the new benchmark for what the card is worth.


As a final thought....

If you pay $100 for a box of cards, you are getting exactly what you paid for. A box of cards. On the box is stated how many are inside, and what the odds are for chase cards. It does not say what players are inside, or which chase cards exactly, only what COULD be inside. It's a gamble, and if you can't afford to gamble THEN DON'T!!!


Just my 2 cents

[thelegendjerryrice]

+1,000,000...

Hear hear...

2nd that
But I also think if you crack a case you wanna at least know you got value for it. Not feel like a girl after prom night LOL

[swjrp10]

2nd that
But I also think if you crack a case you wanna at least know you got value for it. Not feel like a girl after prom night LOL

I wouldnt know...I never went to prom lol and I've only done 1 case, and while I did get phenominal hits (it was for UFC, so totally different market) I got nowhere near the grand + that case ran me. But it was ok, cause I enjoyed it (though looking back, if I would've had self control, I'd be in my dream job now instead of desperate for funds ) Oh well, so's life!