[ryan.s.spaulding@gmai]

Hey everyone -

I'm just getting back into the hobby after over 20 years off. Came back to having nothing of value...not even my Marshall Faulk collection. Bah! Though I do have a 75th anniversary official colts jersey of his from the 90's...mint.

Anyways, MUCH has changed and I'm trying to wrap my head around it. I think I'm going to concentrate my efforts on QB RC...I really like refractors, but am having a tough time really understanding all the nuances. I'm doing 2014-2017 for now, but there's a variety of brands and a variety of types/colors. I did a few box breaks and didn't hit what I wanted.

Is there a favorite brand? How to Bowman and Topps stack up against each other?
Or are there specific colors people look for? Just the most rare ones?

Any guidance, if even just subjective opinions, are greatly appreciated. With serials, all the variations, photo variations, on sticker autos, on card autos...my head is swimming...it's a lot to just take in. I came from just trying to get Faulk in each brand...now, that's not even a thing.

[hempick]

Well, as of 2016 Bowman/Topps can no longer make NFL cards, so you don't really need to worry about 2016 or 2017 for refractors.

As for what is popular, it is mostly just personal preference. I like Blue refractors the most, but others may not.

[jplarson]

Hey there, welcome back to the insanity... I mean hobby! Here's some of my thoughts on your comments and questions.

1. First off, even if your existing collection doesn't appear to have value in the greater marketplace, it had value to you in your younger days and is a touchstone to that time. It's one of the reasons I went off the deep end collecting 1999 Topps Finest cards, I remember riding my bike to my local shop after a garage sale day and picking up a couple packs. Some of the greatest times I ever had in this hobby!

2. I dig refractors as well, the ones you'll see the most variety come from Topps Chrome (thru 2015) and Panini Prizm. I think it's a fun choice to try and tackle rookie QBs and potentially try to make "rainbows" or one of each color refractor for the same player in a given set.

3. In terms of brand, anything new is going to come from Panini. They successfully bid for the exclusive license to print NFLPA licensed football cards which began in 2016. Prior to 2016, Topps or Panini would be the way to go until about 2009 or so, then likely Topps for the Topps Chrome refractors. Bowman is owned by Topps so it's more of a question on whether you like the design. In baseball Bowman Chrome is the definitive brand for rookies, in football it seems like Bowman was the vehicle Topps used as their first release after rookies were drafted but haven't suited up in their NFL jerseys.

4. In terms of colors, it's pretty much what you are looking for.

For example, in 2009 Topps Chrome printed 6 different types of refractors:
Refractors (1:3 hobby packs)
Xfractors (randomly inserted in retail packs, valued same as regular refractors)
Copper serial #'ed 649 (1:12 hobby packs) - fun fact, this one time I pulled the same player, in the same pack, with 1 serial number difference (IE, 348/649 and 349/649). Makes me think they print everything ahead of time, then somehow randomize into packs/boxes and those two cards just got stuck together.
Blue (randomly inserted in retail packs, valued double for Refractors)
Red Refractors #'ed 25 (1:138 hobby packs)
Superfractors #'ed to 1 (1:3454 hobby packs).

Yes in 2015 Topps Chrome unleashed a soul crushing 15 different types of refractors and made the odds harder to see, though Beckett's price guide multipliers help guide scarcity:
Refractors (3x basic)
Xfractors (4x basic)
Green (4x basic)
Blue Wave (5x basic)
Diamond (5x basic)
Pulsar (5x basic)
Purple (5x basic)
Camo #/499 (6x basic) - aka STS
Pink #/399 (6x basic) - aka BCA
Black #/299 (8x basic)
Blue #/199 (10x basic) - not to be confused with "Blue Wave"
Sepia #/99 (12x basic)
Gold #/50 (15x basic)
Red #/25 (40x basic)
Superfractor #/1 (unpriced, depending on player probably in the ballpark of 50x - 75x basic in my opinion)

2016 Panini Prizm for example has 17 different variations (called Prizms)! I found when I left and returned to the hobby I would narrow down my focus to something that wasn't all encompassing . That means set building Topps Finest sets, player collecting Alshon Jeffery, and completing some late 90s/early 00s sets I couldn't in the pre-eBay days.

Depending on your budget, I'd recommend by maybe adding the basic refractor or prizm variation if you are looking for a larger low cost collection, or target cards under a certain serial number (say 100) and look for the closest refractor/prizm variant for a smaller but higher value collection.

Apologies for the book but open ended questions will make me wax on the philosophic at night . Again welcome back and enjoy!

[Guest]

Hey there, welcome back to the insanity... I mean hobby! Here's some of my thoughts on your comments and questions.

1. First off, even if your existing collection doesn't appear to have value in the greater marketplace, it had value to you in your younger days and is a touchstone to that time. It's one of the reasons I went off the deep end collecting 1999 Topps Finest cards, I remember riding my bike to my local shop after a garage sale day and picking up a couple packs. Some of the greatest times I ever had in this hobby!

2. I dig refractors as well, the ones you'll see the most variety come from Topps Chrome (thru 2015) and Panini Prizm. I think it's a fun choice to try and tackle rookie QBs and potentially try to make "rainbows" or one of each color refractor for the same player in a given set.

3. In terms of brand, anything new is going to come from Panini. They successfully bid for the exclusive license to print NFLPA licensed football cards which began in 2016. Prior to 2016, Topps or Panini would be the way to go until about 2009 or so, then likely Topps for the Topps Chrome refractors. Bowman is owned by Topps so it's more of a question on whether you like the design. In baseball Bowman Chrome is the definitive brand for rookies, in football it seems like Bowman was the vehicle Topps used as their first release after rookies were drafted but haven't suited up in their NFL jerseys.

First off, this is a super clutch post. Thank you for taking the time to respond in such detail.

1. Yeah, so I went back and looked at my old cards...I collected some odd players...JJ Stokes? Joey Galloway? Sheesh. But I was hopeful because Faulk was a HOF-er, some would be worth something. Nope!

2. I think I'm going to double-down on specific players I think will pan out...but am stuck still figuring out what refractors to choose and from what company. I snagged a couple Carr ones, just snagged a Chrome Mariota green refractor on eBay.

3. SUPER unfortunate. I mean, I'm at the core, an Upper Deck guy...SPx especially. So the fact they ended in 2015 and they all consolidated into exclusives was real disappointing to me. Where does one get a handle on all the different Panini varieties and releases for 2017? I end up drawn to the brands I'm familiar with...for Panini, it seems to be Donruss that attracts me mostly.

4. In terms of colors, it's pretty much what you are looking for.

For example, in 2009 Topps Chrome printed 6 different types of refractors:
Refractors (1:3 hobby packs)
Xfractors (randomly inserted in retail packs, valued same as regular refractors)
Copper serial #'ed 649 (1:12 hobby packs) - fun fact, this one time I pulled the same player, in the same pack, with 1 serial number difference (IE, 348/649 and 349/649). Makes me think they print everything ahead of time, then somehow randomize into packs/boxes and those two cards just got stuck together.
Blue (randomly inserted in retail packs, valued double for Refractors)
Red Refractors #'ed 25 (1:138 hobby packs)
Superfractors #'ed to 1 (1:3454 hobby packs).

6 seems reasonable.

Yes in 2015 Topps Chrome unleashed a soul crushing 15 different types of refractors and made the odds harder to see, though Beckett's price guide multipliers help guide scarcity:
Refractors (3x basic)
Xfractors (4x basic)
Green (4x basic)
Blue Wave (5x basic)
Diamond (5x basic)
Pulsar (5x basic)
Purple (5x basic)
Camo #/499 (6x basic) - aka STS
Pink #/399 (6x basic) - aka BCA
Black #/299 (8x basic)
Blue #/199 (10x basic) - not to be confused with "Blue Wave"
Sepia #/99 (12x basic)
Gold #/50 (15x basic)
Red #/25 (40x basic)
Superfractor #/1 (unpriced, depending on player probably in the ballpark of 50x - 75x basic in my opinion)

C'mon Topps! LOL! So, this is more what I'm seeing mostly cause I'm starting with 2014 and moving current. So what is with them appearing to hide the odds? To me, that's a key element.

So in general, is the order of interest levels essentially: Refractors (by scarcity), then refractors w/ serials (by scarcity), then refractors with on-sticker auto, and last refractors w/ on-card auto? And do I have it correct that the serial also matters...like a 10/50 is more valuable than a 41/50? Or is it just that the overall print run matters...meaning an X/50 is more appealing than an x/200?

2016 Panini Prizm for example has 17 different variations (called Prizms)! I found when I left and returned to the hobby I would narrow down my focus to something that wasn't all encompassing . That means set building Topps Finest sets, player collecting Alshon Jeffery, and completing some late 90s/early 00s sets I couldn't in the pre-eBay days.

Depending on your budget, I'd recommend by maybe adding the basic refractor or prizm variation if you are looking for a larger low cost collection, or target cards under a certain serial number (say 100) and look for the closest refractor/prizm variant for a smaller but higher value collection.

Yeah, my budget isn't huge...I'm avoiding most of the highest end refractors right now and auto's aren't going to happen unless I have a hunch on a player (like Brett Hundley).

I posted this Q above, but that serial comment, are you saying target ones with a run of 100 or less? Or you want your serial to be under 100, somewhat regardless of the print run?

I greatly appreciate your post, sir!

[hempick]

First off, this is a super clutch post. Thank you for taking the time to respond in such detail.

1. Yeah, so I went back and looked at my old cards...I collected some odd players...JJ Stokes? Joey Galloway? Sheesh. But I was hopeful because Faulk was a HOF-er, some would be worth something. Nope!

2. I think I'm going to double-down on specific players I think will pan out...but am stuck still figuring out what refractors to choose and from what company. I snagged a couple Carr ones, just snagged a Chrome Mariota green refractor on eBay.

3. SUPER unfortunate. I mean, I'm at the core, an Upper Deck guy...SPx especially. So the fact they ended in 2015 and they all consolidated into exclusives was real disappointing to me. Where does one get a handle on all the different Panini varieties and releases for 2017? I end up drawn to the brands I'm familiar with...for Panini, it seems to be Donruss that attracts me mostly.


6 seems reasonable.


C'mon Topps! LOL! So, this is more what I'm seeing mostly cause I'm starting with 2014 and moving current. So what is with them appearing to hide the odds? To me, that's a key element.

So in general, is the order of interest levels essentially: Refractors (by scarcity), then refractors w/ serials (by scarcity), then refractors with on-sticker auto, and last refractors w/ on-card auto? And do I have it correct that the serial also matters...like a 10/50 is more valuable than a 41/50? Or is it just that the overall print run matters...meaning an X/50 is more appealing than an x/200?


Yeah, my budget isn't huge...I'm avoiding most of the highest end refractors right now and auto's aren't going to happen unless I have a hunch on a player (like Brett Hundley).

I posted this Q above, but that serial comment, are you saying target ones with a run of 100 or less? Or you want your serial to be under 100, somewhat regardless of the print run?

I greatly appreciate your post, sir!

Mostly it is just the print run that makes a card more valuable. xx/25 is almost always going to get more money than xx/100 (unless the xx/100 card is autographed and the xx/25 is not, I suppose).

Certain collectors will value a player's number serial over other cards (Drew Bledsoe #11/xxx or Michael Jordan #23/xxx), but to most people it doesn't matter.

Also, the post you quoted incorrectly states that Panini produces refractors. They do NOT. They produce a parallel call "Prizms" which are very similar to refractors. They can't actually be called a "refractor" because Topps owns the rights to that name. (Topps also owns the rights to the terms Xfractor and SuperFractor.)

Only Topps and Bowman releases can have refractors in them. Any other companies' releases are just knock-offs like Panini's Prizms, Press Pass' Reflectors, or Leaf's Mirror Gold/Black/Blue/etc.

[savagenate]

I'd pick whatever color/product you like best, and go for it! If you are looking just for fun, then who cares what it's numbered to? If you are prospecting, on card autos are the way to go as anything else is just saturated. Unless you get an amazing prospect like Luck or Wilson, refractors/prizms won't really go up much in value. Most rookies never pan out, or after their rookie year, their prices drop instead of go up.

Like others have said, jersey number is sometimes more valuable for some reason...I never understood it lol. And people usually seem to prefer a 5/100 rather than a 95/100 card, but only if it's the same price. You won't necessarily get more for a lower number in the print run.

Good luck!

[Guest]

Mostly it is just the print run that makes a card more valuable. xx/25 is almost always going to get more money than xx/100 (unless the xx/100 card is autographed and the xx/25 is not, I suppose).

Certain collectors will value a player's number serial over other cards (Drew Bledsoe #11/xxx or Michael Jordan #23/xxx), but to most people it doesn't matter.

Also, the post you quoted incorrectly states that Panini produces refractors. They do NOT. They produce a parallel call "Prizms" which are very similar to refractors. They can't actually be called a "refractor" because Topps owns the rights to that name. (Topps also owns the rights to the terms Xfractor and SuperFractor.)

Only Topps and Bowman releases can have refractors in them. Any other companies' releases are just knock-offs like Panini's Prizms, Press Pass' Reflectors, or Leaf's Mirror Gold/Black/Blue/etc.

Thank you for responding. So I need to hunt down those int he hobby that value serials over players for trading LOL! I couldn't care less if a serial is on a player I dont care for. Nor an auto. Also, thank you for the clarification on Prisms and refractors...I'm sure the previous poster was just trying to be easy on my flooded brain. LOL! I'd been using refractors as the term because I'm mostly looking at 14-15's and many are Topps.

I'd pick whatever color/product you like best, and go for it! If you are looking just for fun, then who cares what it's numbered to? If you are prospecting, on card autos are the way to go as anything else is just saturated. Unless you get an amazing prospect like Luck or Wilson, refractors/prizms won't really go up much in value. Most rookies never pan out, or after their rookie year, their prices drop instead of go up.

Like others have said, jersey number is sometimes more valuable for some reason...I never understood it lol. And people usually seem to prefer a 5/100 rather than a 95/100 card, but only if it's the same price. You won't necessarily get more for a lower number in the print run.

Good luck!

Thank you! I'm partly in for fun...the designs have gotten REAL nice, but also some prospecting there. At this time, on-card autos are probably out of range on the guys I'm looking to snag. But you're saying my approach (in the last 72 hours) to hunt down refractor-ish types of card on prospects I think could be big is a losing effort? I'm thinking long-term returns...10+ years...on players like Carr and Mariota. Your examples are kind of what I'm trying to hit on...though Luck was the #1 pick and went up...and then Wilson was more of a hidden gem in the 3rd.

For example, if I were to find a Dak in a pack, I'd be of interest in trading for Wentz. I think Dak is good, but he benefits from a stud OL, RB and WR. Wentz I feel is the better long-term prospect. And then there is Garappolo. And Hundley (he's gonna be GOOD). And Mahomes. None are better than Dak, but I see upside there. Do I stay in a better situation if I limit my prospecting to print runs under like 200?

I'm not looking to make a ton of money...just to not lose my butt like I did in the 90s.

---

BAH! Now I'm running into seeing base cards and refractor-types with the parallels being alternate poses. SMH!

How do you all keep up-to-date? Or sane?!?

[ryan.s.spaulding@gmai]

The above post is me btw. Oddly, it combined 2 consecutive posts as one, then called it "Guest".

[savagenate]

Thank you! I'm partly in for fun...the designs have gotten REAL nice, but also some prospecting there. At this time, on-card autos are probably out of range on the guys I'm looking to snag. But you're saying my approach (in the last 72 hours) to hunt down refractor-ish types of card on prospects I think could be big is a losing effort? I'm thinking long-term returns...10+ years...on players like Carr and Mariota. Your examples are kind of what I'm trying to hit on...though Luck was the #1 pick and went up...and then Wilson was more of a hidden gem in the 3rd.

For example, if I were to find a Dak in a pack, I'd be of interest in trading for Wentz. I think Dak is good, but he benefits from a stud OL, RB and WR. Wentz I feel is the better long-term prospect. And then there is Garappolo. And Hundley (he's gonna be GOOD). And Mahomes. None are better than Dak, but I see upside there. Do I stay in a better situation if I limit my prospecting to print runs under like 200?

I'm not looking to make a ton of money...just to not lose my butt like I did in the 90s.

---

BAH! Now I'm running into seeing base cards and refractor-types with the parallels being alternate poses. SMH!

How do you all keep up-to-date? Or sane?!?

If you are looking to go the refractor/prizm route, and hope to keep or make money, you should probably go for /50 or less. But it's tough, and seems to be only rookie years. For instance, I put together rainbows of Aaron Rodgers. His chrome Rookie card, goes from around $90 ungraded, to as high as a few hundred with the right grade. But now, say when Prizm comes out, his /10 Gold will go for in the $70-100 range. give it a year, and I can probably get it for around or less than $50. And it probably won't gain value. But if you hit rookies of the next Luck, Wilson, or Rodgers, you could probably retire lol. So many different routes and brands you can go! Best of luck on whatever you decide to do

[rjcj2017]

I continue to be amazed by how folks find threads that are 5+ years old.

In fact, technically, this thread is so old that Topps/Bowman is actually making football cards again - with refractors! - if you count the NIL-based 2022 Bowman U football set.