[bigken117]

Crapelbon? I thought you had to be 18 to use the boards.

[jacobystealshome]

I disagree. A good closer is far more important than a good kicker

yea, but closers are a temporary thing. name a closer in the past 20 years - outside of mariano and hoffman - that maintained an elite level for more than 6 years. you think papelbon is going to be the exception?

[insidethevines]

yea, but closers are a temporary thing. name a closer in the past 20 years - outside of mariano and hoffman - that maintained an elite level for more than 6 years. you think papelbon is going to be the exception?

Lee Smith, Billy Wagner, Dennis Eckersley, Troy Percival.
need anymore?

[sesfan01]

I guess the Phillies are trying to be the Yankees of the NL (they're going to buy their championship).

[rascrush]

wow kinda shocking seeing how muchphils paid 2 keep madson as well

[jacobystealshome]

Lee Smith, Billy Wagner, Dennis Eckersley, Troy Percival.
need anymore?

"name a closer in the past 20 years - outside of mariano and hoffman - that maintained an elite level for more than 6 years."

Closing has fundamentally changed since the late 80's. thus, why i didnt include sutter, smith and eck

and for the record:

eck was an elite closer for 6 years (87-92)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/player...de01.shtml

percival's level of eliteness was slightly off and on, but really was only considered an elite closer for 5-6 years max:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/player...tr01.shtml

id have to do more research on wagner...most definitely wasnt consistent dominance, but probably had at least 5-6 years of eliteness. i wouldnt mind saying he belongs on the list with mariano and hoffman, though those two did it at a higher level longer and more consistently

[elfeo013]

percival kicked *****!

[jacobystealshome]

percival kicked *****!

yes, but not for an extended time, not close to hoffman or mariano

the point im making is that closers by the vast majority, have a shelf life of dominance of less than 7 years. in fact, 3-4 years is what you get from most.

so papelbon getting 4 years...that's a risk. he's has 6 years - well, we'll say 5 and forget that 2010 happened - of being a dominant closer, one of the 3 best in the game

papelbon came through the minors as a starter, with a plus plus fastball with late movement, a plus slider that was very close to plus plus, and a plus changeup. he even developed a splitter from schilling

as the years passed, his fastball diminished to a plus fastball and the late movement disappeared, a slider he didnt trust, a changeup that disappeared, and the splitter became erratic

historical numbers, his own pitch selection, his numbers in clutch situations...all suggest he is about to lapse from his era of dominance, as many closers do at this point

[PadresFan86]

I might be biased but I still think Hoffman was better than Rivera. Look at the teams Rivera played for!

I guess this means Heath Bell goes to the Red Sox now We never keep our good players

[illadelf]

I might be biased but I still think Hoffman was better than Rivera. Look at the teams Rivera played for!

I guess this means Heath Bell goes to the Red Sox now We never keep our good players

Yes, you are biased