[kstjst]

Now that Panini has put out three very high end products for the 2012-13 NBA season, what is everyone's thoughts on which set to follow?


Here's my assessment:


Flawless -- highest of the high end...PROS: first Lillard auto; love the diamond and emerald gem cards; very limited, very elite. CONS: too high for the average buyer and even the mid range buyer; too limited at just 25 complete sets of the base cards; design is just so so; one time deal?


Immaculate -- PROS: love the memorabilia swatches...most are layered or multi colored; has a Lillard auto/patch rookie; RPAs are serial numbered to 99, which means more collectors can get into making the set; design is much more well thought out and with the rookie cards having a patch swatch and autograph, (this is always better in my book than just an auto); and from the looks of it, the patch area was much more thought out than the ones for National Treasures (I've pulled Kyrie and Anthony Davis AND an Andrew Luck from the National Treasures and ALL three were creased by the patch area because the allotted area for the patch was too deep for the stingy patch swatch they put in). CONS: Too many subsets to keep track of, with even the subset rookie being labeled as RC; Viewed as being the same level as National Treasures in price and in content.


National Treasures -- PROS: this has been the top set by Panini and Playoff, so it's viewed more of as a tradition; Normally these have been the best patch swatches to come out on RPAs; Always designed well (putting my comment aside about the too deep patch area). CONS: Too close in price and style with Immaculate; Gotta throw in the problem with the patch area; too many subsets, although I don't believe these were labeled as RC, so I don't have a big of a problem with this than I do with Immaculate.


Final thoughts -- Flawless may be a one time deal and that's good...you can't expect a diamond every year. Immaculate has the best design, but may be too close in price and content as National Treasures. If I had a vote, I'd say, either continue on with National Treasures as your high end product, or go with Immaculate, but not both.

Your thoughts?

[TBarn291]

Flawless base is /20 (26 if you count the Parallels) I don't necessarily think that is a Con. When every other base set is mass produced (with exceptions like National Treasures and Immaculate) it is kind of nice to have something limited like that. Also Damian Lillards first autos were in Innovation, but Flawless does have his first and only Licensed Rookie Year on card Auto. I do agree the design is so so, kind of bland. Although I don't mind that so much.

Immaculate is by far my favorite just because I LOVE patches and the Tristan Patches in this product are unmatched. Although like you said tons of subsets, which is making it a serious pain to try and pick them all up. I do like how they have separated the different type of patches into subsets (Logos, Numbers, Insignias). I really want to put the entire patch together of one of the subsets.


National Treasures, I really liked the RPAs but that fact that a majority were event and not game worn kind of brings it down for me. (Compared to Flawless) They did have a lot of issues with damaged cards. I know almost every Tristan RPA I picked up had dents in the Surface, or like you said, to much room for the patch causing creases in the Patch window. I wasn't collecting during any other National Treasures release so the tradition aspect doesn't apply to me as much, but I know NT was always considered Paninis premium release. I don't think that will be the case anymore.


As successful as Flawless was, I guarantee it will be back next year. The Gems they use are not valuable enough to keep them from doing it every year. No way they will walk away from it. I would not be surprised in the slightest if they continue all three. If they drop one I think it will be NT. It may have a following, but I think most people were less than impressed with this years NT compared to the other two. The only one I really want to see back is Immaculate.

[patrick54]

i have to say that flawless is my favorite due to the fact it has no redemptions unlike everything else Panini puts out, plus I like the hall of famers large game used patches out of this product. If you're more into rookies though I believe Immaculate is the product to go with and it has a nice mix of hall of famers with nice patches as well just, not as large as the flawless patches.

[kstjst]

Actually I do love the patch swatches in Immaculate...when Beckett put out those early teasers, it was something that I actually looked forward to. I'm probably not as crazy as you to try to piece together an entire patch set, but that's sounds like a cool project...good luck on that...

Your comment about Flawless being back next year is probably true, the fact that there is no LeBron auto, makes the chase for a LeBron Diamond or Gem worth it for me...

Immaculate is by far my favorite just because I LOVE patches and the Tristan Patches in this product are unmatched....I do like how they have separated the different type of patches into subsets (Logos, Numbers, Insignias). I really want to put the entire patch together of one of the subsets.

As successful as Flawless was, I guarantee it will be back next year...I would not be surprised in the slightest if they continue all three. If they drop one I think it will be NT. It may have a following, but I think most people were less than impressed with this years NT compared to the other two. The only one I really want to see back is Immaculate.

Yeah, I wasn't aware that Immaculate had redemptions...that will make it a tough product to hold on to as packs, but at least most of the key players are there.

i have to say that flawless is my favorite due to the fact it has no redemptions unlike everything else Panini puts out, plus I like the hall of famers large game used patches out of this product. If you're more into rookies though I believe Immaculate is the product to go with and it has a nice mix of hall of famers with nice patches as well just, not as large as the flawless patches.

[patrick54]

Don't get me wrong I like both products but I have vowed to not buy products with redemptions any more leaving my choices of product slim to none and more or less a silent protest with Panini that will get me no where...
I have almost 200 redemptions open with Panini a lot from National Treasures, Limited and Gold Standard and it just drives me crazy to see these same guys who I have redemptions open for show up in another product with on card autos while my redemptions sit there for 2 years at Panini sometimes.
Sorry for the redemption rant......
From what I can tell though the Immaculate singles are selling in the range of the National Treasures singles. While Flawless prices have surprised me and are staying pretty high.
I pulled a Lebron emerald base #'d /5, and I'm considering making a small run at the emerald base set but I want to see the market on flawless a little longer before dumping to much cash on those base cards.

[kstjst]

Flawless was a good choice for you as there are no redemptions in it. I'm guessing that Lebron base emerald gem #/5 will get you some bank...THAT"s the card I wanted to actually pull...I figured if you can't get an autograph of Lebron in the product, I'd shoot for either a killer patch swatch or the diamond/gem...I'd totally trade you for that [still have my Kyrie encased auto #/5 and the Anthony Davis auto #1/1 (it has edge wear and a slightly rounded corner) if you're interested].

Don't get me wrong I like both products but I have vowed to not buy products with redemptions any more leaving my choices of product slim to none and more or less a silent protest with Panini that will get me no where...
I pulled a Lebron emerald base #'d /5, and I'm considering making a small run at the emerald base set but I want to see the market on flawless a little longer before dumping to much cash on those base cards.

[patrick54]

I'd totally trade you for that [still have my Kyrie encased auto #/5 and the Anthony Davis auto #1/1 (it has edge wear and a slightly rounded corner) if you're interested].

Did you pull a Maravich or Chamberlain patch out of your box?
I was chasing those in this product.
These are going to be tough grades for us, I believe most of them seem to have some edge wear and a dinged corner.
I've been listening to different trade offers on the Lebron, so maybe we can work something out. I don't believe I have any thing in more organize but I can get a few things in there.

[quavis]

Don't get me wrong I like both products but I have vowed to not buy products with redemptions any more leaving my choices of product slim to none and more or less a silent protest with Panini that will get me no where...
I have almost 200 redemptions open with Panini a lot from National Treasures, Limited and Gold Standard and it just drives me crazy to see these same guys who I have redemptions open for show up in another product with on card autos while my redemptions sit there for 2 years at Panini sometimes.
Sorry for the redemption rant......
From what I can tell though the Immaculate singles are selling in the range of the National Treasures singles. While Flawless prices have surprised me and are staying pretty high.
I pulled a Lebron emerald base #'d /5, and I'm considering making a small run at the emerald base set but I want to see the market on flawless a little longer before dumping to much cash on those base cards.

If you have two year old redemptions, contact them with an email and they will replace them. Youll have them in a week or so.

[patrick54]

If you have two year old redemptions, contact them with an email and they will replace them. Youll have them in a week or so.

I still have them open from 2010 but the only problem I have is I don't won't Panini sending bad cards for the ones I still have open from 2010 and 2011. Last time I did that I wasn't very happy with what they mailed me

[hgyt]

excuse my rant:

how is a kid going to start collecting nba cards and feel welcome in the hobby,when there is cards with diamonds? diamonds are for women anyway. i started collecting as a kid and traded cards with kids.now i am a grown ***** man and trade cards with men.i absolutely love my worthless cards,from when i was a kid
and hate seeing collectors only wanting high end.