[rjcj2017]

Hey guys, I saw a huge thread on here not too long ago about the difference between Cam's on-card and sticker autos. I tried to just update the original thread but couldn't find it.

Many people on that thread had a theory that all the on-cards were real and all the stickers were fake.

Anyway, I was pretty freaked out because I have a SAGE 5-Star auto of Cam that I really like, and being SAGE, it's obviously a sticker.

So, I did some research and made some phone calls.

Of course, Robert Sadlak with SAGE and Cam's auto rep, Garay Takahashi, both said they were real, but neither could verify seeing him sign them in person.

I also contacted Panini a couple of weeks ago and Tracy said he would get back to me, but he hasn't yet.

But, I've found enough 'evidence' that I firmly believe ALL the certified autos are legit, regardless of whether it's a sticker or on-card.

This is based on:

1) Topps' claim that ALL autos are witnessed in person.

I found this video, and granted, it's a PR thing for Topps, and it's a couple of years old, but if you sit through it you will see several athletes signing sheets of stickers in front of company reps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ib6pgP1VLM

2) If you compare Topps stickers to stickers from other companies, they all look alike — except for a few random Panini stickers, which actually feature the 'on-card' style on the stickers. Don't know why, but Tracy hasn't gotten back to me yet on that one.

Still, look at these two sticker autos from different companies, one being Topps:

http://bit.ly/zgGW4h
http://bit.ly/zyLjip

3. Some Press Pass on-card autos actually feature a 'hybrid' of the two styles, where the C and the N are looped like on-card but the last line of the sig loops back into the T, like on the stickers.

Look here:

http://bit.ly/Ho3IeH

4. Upper Deck also has a five-step authentication process for its UDA products. Here is a signed football, and notice under the signature how he adds his #2.

http://bit.ly/wosSPu

Compare the distinct #2 — with only one vertical line in the pound sign and the long, loopy 2 — to the inscription on this sticker auto:

http://bit.ly/y2wfRq

I know this is a lot of looking at links and is somewhat tedious, but imagine how long it took me to do this! LOL

Obviously it is up to everybody to form their own opinion, but I firmly believe they are all legit.

Hopefully all Cam collectors with sticker autos will feel better about this. Thanks, RJ

[jessemerson]

Nice work.

[rjcj2017]

Nice work.

Thank you very much ... I was bummed at first thinking my Cam might not be legit, but then the Topps video, the Press Pass hybrid (don't know what else to call it) and the distinct #2 on both the UDA football and the SAGE sticker really convinced me.

I appreciate you taking the time to look. Do you have any Cam autos?

[nthnoak]

Thing is, not all stickers were believed to be fake. The early releases all seemed legit. As were the ones from Elite as they looked like on card autos, but were on stickers. I think of it this way, imagine being Cam and having to sign sheet after sheet of boring sticker autos. Might be cool at first since your getting paid for it, but it gets old real fast. All these athletes these days have a whole group of people that just hang around them because their famous so how easy would it be to have one of them sign your boring stickers for you? Also, it doesnt really matter what it says on the card as far as authenticity as we are all already aware of the players literally wearing 50 jerseys at one time just so they can say they are player worn and not even game worn. Heck, I have a jersey from Topps that says its not from any particular game, event, or season when it is clearly from a pro bowl jersey! Id say thats a particular game when it only happens once a year and the player has only been to the pro bowl once! Staying on that note, what about Dez Bryants fake autos last year? They were certified as well. All Im really saying is that its all up to the collector now and whatever their personal opinion is. I really do not have much faith in card companied these days. Even if Cams autos were fake, I would not expect them to own up to it. That would ruin them if they did so it would make more sense for them to just keep quiet about it or cover it up.

[rjcj2017]

Thing is, not all stickers were believed to be fake. The early releases all seemed legit. As were the ones from Elite as they looked like on card autos, but were on stickers. I think of it this way, imagine being Cam and having to sign sheet after sheet of boring sticker autos. Might be cool at first since your getting paid for it, but it gets old real fast. All these athletes these days have a whole group of people that just hang around them because their famous so how easy would it be to have one of them sign your boring stickers for you? Also, it doesnt really matter what it says on the card as far as authenticity as we are all already aware of the players literally wearing 50 jerseys at one time just so they can say they are player worn and not even game worn. Heck, I have a jersey from Topps that says its not from any particular game, event, or season when it is clearly from a pro bowl jersey! Id say thats a particular game when it only happens once a year and the player has only been to the pro bowl once! Staying on that note, what about Dez Bryants fake autos last year? They were certified as well. All Im really saying is that its all up to the collector now and whatever their personal opinion is. I really do not have much faith in card companied these days. Even if Cams autos were fake, I would not expect them to own up to it. That would ruin them if they did so it would make more sense for them to just keep quiet about it or cover it up.

You're totally right about the lack of faith in some of the companies ... that's why I compared all the different elements of the actual sigs themselves, and didn't go just on what the reps told me — of course they're going to say they're legit.

The #2 inscription thing on the UDA football and the SAGE sticker, as funny as it sounds, is actually what sold it for me.

The football has the "on-card" auto but an identical, very distinct style on the number 2 inscription, just like the SAGE sticker.

Part of the leap of faith is believing both Topps and UDA that all of their autos are signed in person with a company rep.

If you believe that, as I do, then I'm confident in the autos.

It would seem to me that if they ever didn't follow through with an actual rep, and for some reason fake sigs starting popping up and someone caught them, they would lose all credibility and potential millions in sales.

Put it this way, in Upper Deck (UDA)'s case ... if for some reason they just shipped a case of footballs to Cam's house and didn't send a rep with them, and Cam had someone else sign it — and, somehow, the truth came out, Upper Deck got caught and it went viral — they would get KILLED on sales of all their other high-end stuff, like LeBron, Jordan, Tiger, etc. ... it would literally be the final nail in their coffin after losing most of their trading card licenses.

Say what you will about their past endeavors (Pokemon, etc.), but I would have to think it just wouldn't be worth it to them to try to sneak something else past collectors ... you know, the whole 'the safest time to fly is the day after a plane crash' theory, that they know everyone is watching them.

Like I said, I'm biased, because I want to believe that my sticker auto is real.

The only wrinkle in this whole thing is the two different styles of Panini stickers ... all I can think of is Cam eventually decided it was less strain to try to cram two lines on top of each other into the sticker space after X number of Panini stickers.

A PERFECT example of this is the Tyreke Evans rookie autos in the 09-10 Panini basketball products.

All of his early sigs had a full 'Tyreke' on top of the 'Evans' on the bottom line ... very, very tight sigs in s small space, and I always wondered how long it took him to sign them.

Then, when Contenders came out and his autos packed out as redemptions, they came back simply signed 'T. Evans' in one continuous line — same as an in-person auto I got at a Carl's Jr. outside of Sacramento a couple of years ago.

If you look at all of his autos after that — sticker and otherwise — in the 10-11 products, they're all signed 'T. Evans.'

But we're talking about Cam, not Tyreke ...

Maybe (now this is a HUGE stretch) he signs them two different ways because he knows that collectors prefer on-card autos, so he saves the more elaborate, time consuming style for the stickers as a way to make it up to them.

Who knows, mostly LOL on that last part, but you never know.

[rjcj2017]

Just a side note, Tracy at Panini said he would pass along my email to the NFL auto acquisition guy, and that was about a week and a half ago.

I haven't heard back yet, but hopefully he will be able to explain why Cam has two different auto styles just on the stickers.

Odd.

[Marinocollector]

UDA that all of their autos are signed in person with a company rep.

This is far from a factual statement. UDA even states on the back of their cards:
This card was signed in the presence of a company representative and/or sent from, and certified as to its authenticity by, player depicted.

I even have UD signature card that explicitly state the card was NOT signed in front of a rep.

Both these COAs are on Marino autograph cards, a former UDA client.

To go one step further, back in the day, Phil Hughes (NY Yankees pitcher) was frequently posting in the baseball forum showcasing cards before and after he signed them. He revealed that he was signing them without being in the presence of a UDA Rep. That he was sent a box with cards with stickers showing were to sign the cards.

Also, the Reps of these card companies are often nothing more than local dealers. It would be too costly to do a signing AND fly people all over the US, so if there is an able and willing dealer in the network nearby, UD would send the card dealer.

[ugameck]

It doesn't - sorry. I think he had someone else sign some of the 10,000 sticker autographs. You think a company rep was present for all of those? I bet that there are close to that many autos available for him this year. Pull it up on Beckett search function.

Rare ain't rare no more - and the companies don't know what they put out.

[rogue655]

You did a lot of research but... There's still no explanation of why there are two versions of his auto

[all day baby]

The #2 inscription thing on the UDA football and the SAGE sticker, as funny as it sounds, is actually what sold it for me.

The thing you are missing is EXACTLY what nthoak mentioned -- the early stuff with stickers were actually his autographs (i.e. SAGE), so those autos SHOULD match the in-person signed football. It's the stuff released later in the year with stickers that are in different.

I appreciate all the work you have done, but honestly... I think it is a lost cause. The card companies are just going to say, "Yeah, that his is signature", even though it isn't.