[crazyforkinsler5]

Yea, I'm by no means his buddy. Don't care for him, don't hang out with him. I just know him and his name, and I could pick him out of a lineup if given the opportunity. I have talked to him on the card aisle. That's about it. THat's why I said personally know him. It's not someone I've just run into a time or 2.

Fair enough. I retract the buddy references and will go with "acquaintance."

I remember your co-worker guy, didn't he get fired or something?

[cweiland]

fred bear.

You a Nugent fan?

Haha Mark, I totally get that but was afraid to ask. Being from Michigan I have met Ted on a few occasions

[kerryandbeth]

I'm sorry for posting what may be a dissenting opinion, but I see this sentiment a lot and I couldn't disagree more.

'Speculators' or investors don't ruin this hobby and they aren't drawn to 'easy' money. They're attracted to 'value' and I think investors/speculators fill a much needed space in our hobby. I wonder how much of a hobby we'd have without them, honestly. We certainly wouldn't have a resource like Beckett who provides input on 'value' or grading services to preserve/enhance 'value'. In my opinion, the entire idea of trading is based on the premise that one person (collector or investor) places more value on an item than another person. We don't normally talk about it in those types of terms, it's usually just a comparison of a 'need/want' list versus a 'duplicate/trader' list, but it's really who places more 'value' on a card, right?

Sure, investors/speculators will come and go, but it's based on value and they do the same thing on Wall Street. Amazon doesn't trade at almost $2400/share because someone is 'hoarding' it or trying to keep it away from somebody else, it's because that's it's value at a given time. Nearly 6M shares get traded a day and you may see fluctuation, but the demand is what drives the price.

Similarly, the auction of a PSA 1 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle can draw 50-100 bidders and result in a price over $5,000. What's wrong with some of those bidders being 'investors' trying to get a deal? I don't own one - should they all get out of my way and let me have it for $50?

Collecting baseball (sports) cards, done as a hobby or as an investment, is up to the individual and how they derive their enjoyment from it. I mean, if my hobby ever makes me feel like a 'battered spouse', I'm out.

[Don't get me wrong. People can do unscrupulous things, but I've had that experience with 'collectors' and 'investors' alike.]

Greed is one of the major sins.

[waynetalger]

So I take it that if I buy 3 boxes lcs or retail of the same product keep what I want and collect and sell my doubles I am part of the problem How about recouping some of my money I spent is that bad

I agree some who just buy to resell singles is a major part of the inflation. I really believe people are grabbing at straws to make some money to feed their family during this hard time and some will win and some will get in worse trouble than they are already in. It is like a slot machine sometime you win and sometime you break even but most of the time you lose.

I like to look at the good in people and I think people are trying things to make a few bucks to pay the bills and when everyone goes back to work the bubble will pop some for some of these guys doing this will actually get in the hobby and collect for the next pandemic like a doomsday person who stocks up on MRE toothpaste and toilet paper.

This pandemic and cards are a bad thing now but it could be a blessing in disguise when everything gets back to normal and we have more collectors

Like I said I like to see the good side of people and then no matter what their are and always be twits out there they try to ruin things for the rest of us

[fred bear]

Greed is one of the major sins.

I kind of hope this is sarcasm, right. It would take a lot more information about a specific situation to pass judgement on a fellow collector.

If not, I would point out that collecting (material things of any kind) would be considered Greed by the most strict definitions and I would warn against Envy (which is also a deadly sin). I would then encourage Prudence, Temperance, and Charity (three of the seven virtues).

Other responses (since I cannot figure out how to multi-quote)...

@waynetalger - I, too, tend to look for the good. Sometimes, you can't find it and you have to move on, but I think it's always worth looking for it.

@zeprock - I'm actually a bowhunter first and Nugent can certainly be found in my playlist. I wouldn't list him as a 'fave', but I enjoy his music more than his politics.

[kerryandbeth]

I kind of hope this is sarcasm, right. It would take a lot more information about a specific situation to pass judgement on a fellow collector.

If not, I would point out that collecting (material things of any kind) would be considered Greed by the most strict definitions and I would warn against Envy (which is also a deadly sin). I would then encourage Prudence, Temperance, and Charity (three of the seven virtues).

Other responses (since I cannot figure out how to multi-quote)...

@waynetalger - I, too, tend to look for the good. Sometimes, you can't find it and you have to move on, but I think it's always worth looking for it.

@zeprock - I'm actually a bowhunter first and Nugent can certainly be found in my playlist. I wouldn't list him as a 'fave', but I enjoy his music more than his politics.

Yes, definitely yanking your chain with my weird humor.

[rjcj2017]

Some fair points, all.

Yes, of course, every one of us has "profited" in some way from the hobby, be it selling something we pulled, trading for a great card we thought we'd never own, or picking up some cards on one trading site knowing that you can move them on another.

I mean, they are "trading cards," after all.

But the fork in the road for me is in regard to people that simply go store to store, buy up literally every box and pack of an entire product, run home and instantly post those same boxes online for insane mark-ups.

Is it illegal? Of course not, it's free market capitalism.

But it's not collecting, and it's not right. Those are two things I can't budge on.

If a guy clears out all the product and busts it because he's looking for a certain card or whatever and is going to put the rest of the singles online to try to recoup some of the cost - or, heaven forbid, put them up for trade on Beckett so the rest of us have a chance at them - I can live with that.

But to me - and your mileage may vary - just buying a box and re-selling it is nothing more than greed, and it especially irritates me knowing that people like crazyforkinsler's acquaintance/pal/whatever actually make a living doing it while I have a real job and make a legitimate contribution to society, so it will never not bother me.

I mean, if you want to be a real "speculator" or "investor," then put your big boy pants on and go buy expensive cases from hobby dealers. Then you all can do all the group breaks and case breaks and power selling you want.

But the retail stuff is supposed to be for those of us who just want to go into the store and casually pick up a few blasters or packs every now and then ... for the joy of collecting.

I would put my retail "success" up against anyone in the world, and I can personally say I'm significantly waaaaaaaay behind in terms of dollars spent vs. recouped over the years.

Meaning, I don't do it for the money ... I do it for the joy of collecting.

And, I mean, heaven forbid if there is actually some product left over for kids - gasp!

If I'm in the minority, so be it. I don't care.

Anyway, I'm done with this topic.

People that follow the distributors around from store to store just to clear out the retail stuff really need to get two things - a job and a life.

[kerryandbeth]

I like your comment that retail products should be for the casual buyer and kids...completely true. Hobby boxes can fill the void for investors.

[dimarco73]

Lot's of meaningful opinions on this topic. Some seem to be ruffling some feathers and bunching some panties.
To each their own, everyone is drawn to the hobby for their own reasons and vices.

I'm no expert, don't play one on on TV or in real life...but I have been around the hobby, closing in on 40 years.
Once the sports start up, the fantasy drafts begin and the gambling money again begins to flow....the pins will find this bubble.

I don't think it will be a crash and burn, but the high-tide will recede and the hobby will find its level again.

Social media, youtube vids and podcasts will continue to inject life into the speculation and help dry up the product, the stay at home will have attracted a lot of new blood into the hobby no doubt.

But the real money and vice is gambling, once the gambling begins again...the air will come out of this run.

Sell, Sell, Sell... cash in now.
We all know there is a drawback coming...don't fight the current and no need to time it to the last second. Maybe not next week or next month or in 3 months...but it will happen.

[DrMitchJ]

I'm sorry for posting what may be a dissenting opinion, but I see this sentiment a lot and I couldn't disagree more.
'Speculators' or investors don't ruin this hobby and they aren't drawn to 'easy' money. They're attracted to 'value' and I think investors/speculators fill a much needed space in our hobby. I wonder how much of a hobby we'd have without them, honestly. We certainly wouldn't have a resource like Beckett who provides input on 'value' or grading services to preserve/enhance 'value'. In my opinion, the entire idea of trading is based on the premise that one person (collector or investor) places more value on an item than another person. We don't normally talk about it in those types of terms, it's usually just a comparison of a 'need/want' list versus a 'duplicate/trader' list, but it's really who places more 'value' on a card, right?
Sure, investors/speculators will come and go, but it's based on value and they do the same thing on Wall Street. Amazon doesn't trade at almost $2400/share because someone is 'hoarding' it or trying to keep it away from somebody else, it's because that's it's value at a given time. Nearly 6M shares get traded a day and you may see fluctuation, but the demand is what drives the price.
Similarly, the auction of a PSA 1 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle can draw 50-100 bidders and result in a price over $5,000. What's wrong with some of those bidders being 'investors' trying to get a deal? I don't own one - should they all get out of my way and let me have it for $50?
Collecting baseball (sports) cards, done as a hobby or as an investment, is up to the individual and how they derive their enjoyment from it. I mean, if my hobby ever makes me feel like a 'battered spouse', I'm out.
[Don't get me wrong. People can do unscrupulous things, but I've had that experience with 'collectors' and 'investors' alike.]

I do not mind dissenting opinions, and I believe nothing I say is going to change your opinion, but I think you are first and foremost making a big mistake by putting speculators and investors together. They are nothing alike. Sure Speculators are investing, but investors are not speculators.

I am heavily interested in 2 similar hobbies (cards & comics) and I have been involved with both for a very long time, enough time to see the detrimental effect of speculators on a hobby. A speculator is only good to the retailer & manufacturer of the speculators focus. They buy up product, they artificially inflate prices, cause perceived shortages, etc. The speculator derives absolutely no enjoyment from the hobby or collecting aspects other than what their profit margin can be once they flip their product.
Speculators ruined the card hobby in the late 80s early 90s
Speculators ruined the comic book hobby during the same time period.
Speculators bought cases of cards and cases of comics thinking that they could cash them in to pay for their kids college tuition.
Speculators sometimes cash out at the right time, sometimes they get hurt. Often, they do not look at, read, or care about what is in the case of merchandise, they are just widgets to buy and sell.

Investors and hobbyists have a blurred line between them but are closer to each other with a slightly ethical difference.
Both appreciate the items and the value of their collection / investment but the investor has less remorse selling than the collector. Both will display their finds with pride, showing what they hunted down, or saved, or traded for but the investor is slightly more detached from an item, while the collector is usually more invested.
Personally, when I was a kid, I duped my folks into helping me with my hobby by showing them articles about Action Comics #1 selling for a million dollars. Proof that comics were not just fun, but a great investment, which helped them believe I was not throwing away my allowance on what they perceived as crap. it turns out, my collection was in fact an amazing investment, but I have major problems selling them, although I have at times of financial hardships.
I dislike speculators, I have a high regard for investors and I totally understand and appreciate the collector / hobbyist with my highest regard. Certainly there can be good and bad in any of those 3 groups, but from my experience over time, i have yet to meet a speculator that I liked.