(01-09-2014, 05:36 PM)jacobystealshome Wrote: bagwell most likely had "help", however
as far as firstbase from that era, i think frank thomas is clearly number 1, with bagwell and mcgriff vying for second spot
im not arguing that mcgriff isnt a borderline guy. i think he's borderline in
but 11.7% of the vote is ridiculous
My friend, as you know, it's not even the most ridiculous baseball-related vote of the last two months or so ...
That would be ...
Here it comes ...
Jose Fernandez over Yasiel Puig for NL ROY.
Here are the percentages of THAT vote:
Marlins without Fernandez — last place
Marlins with Fernandez — last place
Dodgers without Puig — last place
Dodgers with Puig — first place.
But in all seriousness, how does anyone know who was juicing and who was not?
I mean, everyone assumes Thomas and McGriff were clean and Bagwell and Piazza were dirty, but how does anyone honestly know other than those four people themselves?
My opinion is, unless there's a positive test — i.e. Palmeiro — you let anyone in that has the numbers.
But even if you do let in Bonds and Clemens, for example, just simply add a line to their HOF plaque — "Bonds was investigated by the federal government over alleged PED use in 20XX and was found guilty of X in 20XX" or whatever.
That way, based on numbers — which a lot of this stuff is — the guys that are "deserving" get in, but the known scoundrels are differentiated by the verbage on their plaque.
That way, their PED use is just as immortalized as their on-field performance, and you'll never have one without the other.
I just don't think it's fair to say Player A and Player B were cheaters and Player C and Player D were clean without a test result somewhere along the line.
Perfect example — Griffey. Everyone says either "imagine the numbers he would have put up with PEDs" or "at least he was clean, think of what he could have done if he was healthy" ... but isn't nagging injury breakdown one of the key components of PED use?
I mean, think about how often Bonds was hurt the last few years.
Look at how often Griffey was on the DL his last few years.
I don't think Griffey used, personally. But I don't think it's fair to assume Piazza and Bagwell did, either.