[rjcj2017]

Any time you take an unknown chance with your money (i.e., pulling commons versus pulling a high dollar card), it is technically gambling, because you're not fully aware of what you're receiving at the time of purchase ... same with a lotto ticket, slot machine, raffle ticket, etc.

The difference between card collecting and gambling is that even if you bust a "dud' box of cards, you still physically have the cards to show for it ... not so when you lose a quarter in the slot machine, for example.

Once it's gone, it's gone.

[Hofcollector]

I think there is a bit of semantics going on. You are correct that investing is very similar to gambling, but there are some fine details differentiating the two. Here is a great article that ultimately highlights the nuances and differences between investing and gambling, as well as pointing out that speculating is a variation of the two.
http://www.investorguide.com/article/125...investing/

Yes, they are technically very similar but the perceptions and nuance difference between gambling and investing are worth noting as 2 separate things.

I totally agree they are 2 different things (barely. Sometimes not). However, I used your terminology (gambling) and how you related it to the hobby and investing. I do not view buying cases/boxes as a gamble. Either they were a good investment or a bad one. I did read that article and as far as I can tell it purposely contradicted itself to blur the lines between gambling and investing to prove there may not be much difference at all between the two. Every notation or quote from an expert was countered with a contradiction that negated the previous statement or bridged the gap between the 2. Basically I read it as it's open to interpretation depending on your own views of risk /reward in a case like sportscards. What would complicate the matter more is the bit about gambling not involving much research while investing usually revolves around market research which in my mind is a direct indication that sportscards would be classified as an[/b] investment.

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Any time you take an unknown chance with your money (i.e., pulling commons versus pulling a high dollar card), it is technically gambling, because you're not fully aware of what you're receiving at the time of purchase ... same with a lotto ticket, slot machine, raffle ticket, etc.

The difference between card collecting and gambling is that even if you bust a "dud' box of cards, you still physically have the cards to show for it ... not so when you lose a quarter in the slot machine, for example.

Once it's gone, it's gone.

Agreed

[jeremy7269]

Gambling and investing have far too many layers to be compared to card collecting.

The closest thing to gambling in card collecting is box breaks. You buy a team but might not get anything.

The closest thing to investing would be prospecting. Buying prospects can be looked at like owning individual stocks.

The real question should read, "Does the potential to resell cards effect how you collect?"

Just my opinions.

[Hofcollector]

Gambling and investing have far too many layers to be compared to card collecting.

The closest thing to gambling in card collecting is box breaks. You buy a team but might not get anything.

The closest thing to investing would be prospecting. Buying prospects can be looked at like owning individual stocks.

The real question should read, "Does the potential to resell cards effect how you collect?"

Just my opinions.

I like it. Good topic.

[scottbdoug]

Im going to keep my comments to a minimum because everyone already knows my pov. Obviously 99% was an exaggeration, but it's the majority in my mind to one degree or another. I like Djohn as he always has something to contribute and is a fair trader but as he pointed out, we don't always agree. He mentioned that people may be more gambling at times than investing. My point is that's all that investing is. Gambling. There are no guarantees or sure things in investing. You take the same chances opening wax as you do buying stock. You put your money towards something in hopes of a large return. There seems to be this idea that your not investing unless your making money or that as soon as you decide to invest that automatically guarantees your going to profit from it. In most cases your not. If it were that easy everyone would do it. I don't mean to say were all prospectors but I do whole heartedly believe that most modern collectors do their thing with the money aspect in the back of their minds and those that don't eventually evolve into chasing higher dollar cards because of the excitement and the realization that good money is involved. The promise of a hefty pay day is quite an intoxicating feeling.

Also, I never said we couldn't be both. Just that the investing or money aspect plays into it heftily these days.

the more short term the investing is the more of a gamble it is as well so hofcollector does make a good point imo. now with the original post it was mostly a complaint about buyers on ebay returning cards within a 30 day period when those cards drop in price or cant be sold by the purchaser at a higher price.

i found that complaint a bit of the pot calling the kettle black in that when sellers on ebay pit up cards hot players who will over time just drop in price and become common cards they are looking for stupid ppl (well i think they might be stupid) to buy the cards. it similar to what i see on kijiji when idiots put up cards from the junk era at hundreds of dollars hoping to find stupid or ignorant ppl to buy them.

when they do that and ppl buy their cards for 10 or 20 dollars and you look at the same card two months or two years later its unsellable at 50 cents. then i say they should be happy they arent getting more returns.

everyone can sell cards at whatever price they wish and people can buy them but if a smart guy decides to take advantage of a policy on ebay well dont complain about it cuz truthfully that policy is one of the reasons millions shop on ebay. without it these sellers 2ould have a lot less customers. but im digressing arent i?

[kerryandbeth]

This was an answer i received in a discussion with Hofcollector in another trade. Since I don't really invest in sports cards, anyone who was around collecting in the mid to late 80s into the mid 90s would know why (investors lost their shirts because of large production amounts from the card companies).

But perhaps these days that debacle is just another chapter in a long past history of the hobby. Personally I still think people are collectors first and if they have investing in mind it is a small % of why they collect sports cards. It's one of the reasons I assume when people speak of their cards they refer to them as their PC (personal collection) not their PI (personal investments).

But I could be wrong. So I thought I would do and impromptu poll of Beckett Forum readers to she what's the what (vote at the top of this post).

I had a similar conversation with Matt a while back and we both were right...collecting does need a bit of speculation while dropping money on a box wrapped in cellophane, and finding singles that catch your eye has its own lack of excitement. Both can be rewarding, and both methods should be considered a hobby. I always collect sets but I buy boxes to open as the thrill is there but most singles are trade bait and not an investment.
What I don't like are those who only sell on ebay and do not trade or give other collectors fair deals.

[jeremy7269]

[quote='kerryandbeth' pid='2620699' dateline='146284517
What I don't like are those who only sell on ebay and do not trade or give other collectors fair deals.

[/quote]

Perceived unfairness and not trading can be because both parties have different opinions on collecting and investing as well as book and sale value. It's hard to trade when the philosophies are different.

[waynetalger]

I have not sold many of my baseball cards over 27 years but I am in the process of selling my football. Wife told me I had to downsize

[rmpaq5]

I have not sold many of my baseball cards over 27 years but I am in the process of selling my football. Wife told me I had to downsize

Uh oh...Keep those Nolan's safe my friend !

[oneofakindcards]

Topps has created a hobby where almost everyone has to sell what they have to stay in the hobby, even if they don't want to, as the hobby has become way too expensive for almost everyone. In this sense, most people are "investors".

When we're talking "investors" today, we're mostly talking about short-term investing, the kind that lasts a couple years at most. After a couple years, the price of almost everything drops off a cliff as this is when the investors stop investing. If more thought long-term investing was a good idea, then prices wouldn't drop off a cliff.

Big question: Why doesn't Beckett have serious, regular, scholarly articles about average price DECREASES? What percentage of modern cards have maintained or increased their value 5+ years after release?

Anyway, real collectors were complaining about "investors" in the hobby 15-20 years ago, they were really upset at "Chromies" - the early word for prospectors. Seeing the direction "Chromies" wanted to go with the hobby, many of the old collectors left the modern hobby altogether. It became obvious at that point the direction Topps and the hobby wanted to go, Topps in particular wanted to "suck in" and control the gamblers/investors - and it has.

But Topps spends its time courting both investors and collectors, playing both sides against the middle, even though the investing piece undermines the collecting one. The "pure investing side" doesn't care what happens per se, because as soon as the investments dry up they'll go to another hobby to "invest".