[nolan5000]

Based on fulltritty's comment, I wish Selig would be commish forever!!

[chrisa19978]

Here is my thought on this back in the 90's when Bonds, Clemens and Sosa were using PED's they were not Illegal. They were banned years later and from what I remember after they went on strike in 1994 if I remember right and missed the world series that year fans were not happy in 1995 and baseball used these players to get back to where they were with the race to break records. No matter how you look at it all these players were a part of history and stories people will tell there kids. Do you honestly think there was only a select few using PED's I doubt it. People consider Griffey to be clean but wasn't he in the race with Sosa and Bonds. No matter what they did to do what they did it was accomplished and people watched. I feel like what one guy mentioned above either yhey all make it or no one. There are already alot of questionable people in looking at there stats. If you don't vote them in the Veterans committe will end up voting them in at some point in time just because of stats. My opinion Pete Rose needs to be in as a player, Shoeless Joe Jackson also should be in. If they wait till Pete Rose passes away I would understand as they did not want to give him the honor while he was alive.

[nolan5000]

Based on your comment, then I say no one!!

[ceocards]

It's the HALL OF FAME
Not the Hall of stats.
They will get in because they are FAMOUS FOR HAVING INCREDIBLE STATS DUE* TO USING STEROIDS..this will be the issue of the era...and 50 yrs form now when mcguire and bonds are in the HOF- we will talk about what they did and how they did it...not that it was right...but that it was done..its a sad truth..
i dont like cheaters...
but that's the way it is- that is history

^^ This

And yes, I do believe Rose and Shoeless Joe should be in as well.

I don't like that they cheated. In fact I hate it.

Still, these were the best players of that era. Unless people really think that without PEDs Bonds would have been reduced to Jose Vizcaino-like stats. And the purpose of the Hall of Fame is to report the best players in the history of baseball.

The PED era is a significant era in the history of baseball. A shameful era, yes, but a significant one nonetheless. Removing it from the HOF would be analogous to removing the Civil Rights era or the slavery era from US History books. They are embarrassing and shameful eras of US History for sure, but it would be even more shameful to not acknowledge that they happened.

[rossmaute]

The PED era is a significant era in the history of baseball. A shameful era, yes, but a significant one nonetheless. Removing it from the HOF would be analogous to removing the Civil Rights era or the slavery era from US History books. They are embarrassing and shameful eras of US History for sure, but it would be even more shameful to not acknowledge that they happened.

I was going to say something along these lines earlier but couldn't find the right words. Well said.

[nolan5000]

Sorry ceo, I don't agree with you. And I don't think that your comparison is proportionate. IMHO, there is a big difference.

[rossmaute]

Obviously he's not equating slavery to steroids, just drawing a parallel between where they fit within the context of their respective histories.

[ricelynnevans75]

^^ This

And yes, I do believe Rose and Shoeless Joe should be in as well.

I don't like that they cheated. In fact I hate it.

Still, these were the best players of that era. Unless people really think that without PEDs Bonds would have been reduced to Jose Vizcaino-like stats. And the purpose of the Hall of Fame is to report the best players in the history of baseball.

The PED era is a significant era in the history of baseball. A shameful era, yes, but a significant one nonetheless. Removing it from the HOF would be analogous to removing the Civil Rights era or the slavery era from US History books. They are embarrassing and shameful eras of US History for sure, but it would be even more shameful to not acknowledge that they happened.

I fully agree with you CEO.

Shoeless Joe I'm pretty sure they have zero evidence on.

Pete Rose, well, I haven't read everything on him but from what I gather, he was gambling while he was managing. He wasn't going to go into the HOF as a manager but rather what he did during his playing days. There are those two years where he was a player/manager which could make things wishy washy. However, I'm not going to just assume he gambled during those two years without looking further into it.

One argument I don't like (not from you CEO) is that steroids were not illegal in baseball. Well, that's true but they, without a prescription, were illegal in the eyes of the law which last time I checked, trumps MLB rules.

[ceocards]

Sorry ceo, I don't agree with you. And I don't think that your comparison is proportionate. IMHO, there is a big difference.

I'm not asking anyone to agree with me. Just adding my opinion to the conversation.

And no, I'm not EQUATING slavery and PEDs. I'm making an analogy using them as examples. Analogies, by definition, are taking dissimilar things and finding a common thread, in this case being the idea of trying to pretend certain eras of history (either baseball history or US history) didn't happen.

Bill - I agree, I've never bought the "steroids weren't illegal in baseball" argument either. (WARNING: another analogy to follow!) I don't think there's a specific rule in baseball against beating the opposing mascot to death with a baseball bat...that still doesn't make it right or legal.

I DO have a problem with the Hall of Fame trying to legislate morality into their voting. Not that I approve of taking PEDs (or gambling on games, or cheating, or womanizing or any of the other turd-like characteristics of some of the HOF members). But this isn't the Boy Scout of the Year hall of fame - it's the baseball Hall of Fame.

I want my great great grandchildren to visit this museum 100 years from now, and understand the ENTIRETY of the history of baseball. Not some cherry-picked, non-embarrassing moments of history.

[zeprock]

The PED era is a significant era in the history of baseball. A shameful era, yes, but a significant one nonetheless. Removing it from the HOF would be analogous to removing the Civil Rights era or the slavery era from US History books. They are embarrassing and shameful eras of US History for sure, but it would be even more shameful to not acknowledge that they happened.

I agree with this too and I like the analogy. I also think Joe Jackson and Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame. They were "famous". Turning a blind eye doesn't change history. Even the steroid freaks should be represented.

Oh, and Maris got an asterisk (more) because the commissioner was Babe Ruth's drinking buddy.