[zeprock]

Next time the Today's Game committee meets, I want to see 10 completely new players/managers/executives. If they can't elect Steinbrenner by now, he's never getting in.

In time Steinbrenner will get in. The doors are pretty much wide open now. I can think of about 100 players I think are more deserving than Baines. Mattingly, Murphy, McGriff just for starters. I feel bad for Baines having this happen to him though. It's not his fault he was on the ballot and it's not his fault he was elected. An honor for him but a black eye on the Hall election process.

[jack pfiester]

In time Steinbrenner will get in. The doors are pretty much wide open now. I can think of about 100 players I think are more deserving than Baines. Mattingly, Murphy, McGriff just for starters. I feel bad for Baines having this happen to him though. It's not his fault he was on the ballot and it's not his fault he was elected. An honor for him but a black eye on the Hall election process.

That's the problem, with Baines election, guys like Bill Buckner and Al Oliver are now HOF material...

[dimarco73]

That's the problem, with Baines election, guys like Bill Buckner and Al Oliver are now HOF material...

Baines is a committee vote. He is part of 111 other players voted in by veteran/old timer committee's. More then half of those such elected even a seasoned baseball enthusiast would have a hard time knowing who they are.

They are certainly not the standard of elite HOF inductees people think of when they think of HOF. But they are thought of as a HOF'r among their peers which should mean something.
After all everyone else is just sitting in the stands or watching on TV. Their peers are playing on the same field and in the clubhouse for years with and against these players. They may have some idea of what the are talking about.

For the players voted by the BBWAA, there are only 127 players plus 2 special elections of Gehrig and Clemente.

Take a look at a snip of the 23 players voted in by BBWAA between 1939-55 and the last 24 players voted in by the BBWAA.

In both groups it is a snapshot of the very best players of their time. Some of course more elite then others but all certainly a snippet of the best.

Not every HOF'r is Ruth, Mays and Aaron, but to be a BBWAA voted HOF is certainly and extremely difficult achievement.


1955 Dazzy Vance
1955 Ted Lyons
1955 Gabby Hartnett
1955 Joe DiMaggio
1954 Bill Terry
1954 Rabbit Maranville
1954 Bill Dickey
1953 Al Simmons
1953 Dizzy Dean
1952 Paul Waner
1952 Harry Heilmann
1951 Mel Ott
1951 Jimmie Foxx
1948 Pie Traynor
1948 Herb Pennock
1947 Carl Hubbell
1947 Lefty Grove
1947 Frankie Frisch
1947 Mickey Cochrane
1942 Rogers Hornsby
1939 George Sisler
1939 Willie Keeler
1939 Eddie Collins


2019 Mariano Rivera
2019 Mike Mussina
2019 Edgar Martinez
2019 Roy Halladay
2018 Jim Thome
2018 Chipper Jones
2018 Trevor Hoffman
2018 Vladimir Guerrero
2017 Ivan Rodriguez
2017 Tim Raines
2017 Jeff Bagwell
2016 Mike Piazza
2016 Ken Griffey Jr.
2015 John Smoltz
2015 Pedro Martinez
2015 Randy Johnson
2015 Craig Biggio
2014 Frank Thomas
2014 Greg Maddux
2014 Tom Glavine
2012 Barry Larkin
2011 Bert Blyleven
2011 Roberto Alomar
2010 Andre Dawson

[elberson]

In time Steinbrenner will get in. The doors are pretty much wide open now. I can think of about 100 players I think are more deserving than Baines. Mattingly, Murphy, McGriff just for starters. I feel bad for Baines having this happen to him though. It's not his fault he was on the ballot and it's not his fault he was elected. An honor for him but a black eye on the Hall election process.

Whats with the baines bashing. Hof worthy for sure. Just look at the numbers. McGriff is hof worthy too. Mattingly no. Murphy no.

Baines. 2866 hits 1299 runs 384 hr 1628 rbi
Mattingly 2153 hits 1007 runs 222 hr 1097 rbi
Murphy 2111 hits 1197 runs 398 hr 1266 rbi
Mcgriff. 2490 hits 1349 runs 493 hr 1550 rbi

[DrMitchJ]

Whats with the baines bashing. Hof worthy for sure. Just look at the numbers. McGriff is hof worthy too. Mattingly no. Murphy no.

Baines. 2866 hits 1299 runs 384 hr 1628 rbi .... 21 season .289 BA 136 hits/yr
Mattingly 2153 hits 1007 runs 222 hr 1097 rbi ..... 14 seasons .307 BA 153 hits/yr
Murphy 2111 hits 1197 runs 398 hr 1266 rbi
Mcgriff. 2490 hits 1349 runs 493 hr 1550 rbi

[/[quote='elberson' pid='2689071' dateline='1548725860']

Whats with the baines bashing. Hof worthy for sure. Just look at the numbers. McGriff is hof worthy too. Mattingly no. Murphy no.

You forgot some important Stats

Baines. 2866 hits 1299 runs 384 hr 1628 rbi .... 21 season .289 BA 136 hits/yr
Mattingly 2153 hits 1007 runs 222 hr 1097 rbi ..... 14 seasons .307 BA 153 hits/yr
Murphy 2111 hits 1197 runs 398 hr 1266 rbi ... 18 seasons .265 BA 117 hits/yr
Mcgriff. 2490 hits 1349 runs 493 hr 1550 rbi .... 19 season .284 BA 131 hits/yr

Based on my figures, Mattingly kicks all their butts, but Baines is better than McGriff and Murphy !
Mattingly was a dominant player for about 10 years before his back problems. He would have surpassed 3000 hits easily were he still playing past 1995. I don't remember Baines being that impactful of a player ... really good, played well against the Yanks every time I saw him, but I still don't think he's HOF ... nothing against him as a person or player ... very good at both .... but HOF? Not so much, IMO.

[zeprock]

I don't remember Baines being that impactful of a player ... really good, played well against the Yanks every time I saw him, but I still don't think he's HOF ... nothing against him as a person or player ... very good at both .... but HOF? Not so much, IMO.

I'm not bashing Baines either. He was really good. But his resume consists of 6 all-star appearances and one Silver Slugger award. That's it. Only once was he in the top 5 for Batting Average, Home Runs or RBI titles. Never in the top five for MVP. No Gold Gloves. No World Championships. He had a long career, 20th all-time in games played which accounts for his stats and you don't have a long career if you're not a really good player. However he's not in the top 25 of any offensive statistical category. I think he comes up short as a HOFer. That being said, I now collect Harold Baines.

[jack pfiester]

You forgot some important Stats

Baines. 2866 hits 1299 runs 384 hr 1628 rbi .... 21 season .289 BA 136 hits/yr
Mattingly 2153 hits 1007 runs 222 hr 1097 rbi ..... 14 seasons .307 BA 153 hits/yr
Murphy 2111 hits 1197 runs 398 hr 1266 rbi ... 18 seasons .265 BA 117 hits/yr
Mcgriff. 2490 hits 1349 runs 493 hr 1550 rbi .... 19 season .284 BA 131 hits/yr

Based on my figures, Mattingly kicks all their butts, but Baines is better than McGriff and Murphy !
Mattingly was a dominant player for about 10 years before his back problems. He would have surpassed 3000 hits easily were he still playing past 1995. I don't remember Baines being that impactful of a player ... really good, played well against the Yanks every time I saw him, but I still don't think he's HOF ... nothing against him as a person or player ... very good at both .... but HOF? Not so much, IMO.

Mattingly had a very short peak, 1984-1989, but was so dominant during that span he was considered one of the best players of the decade, then declined dramatically starting in 1990 due to back problems.

Baines was a compiler who hung around for a long time because he could DH. Lee Smith was a compiler also and had only a handful of seasons where I would consider him a top closer.

As for Dale Murphy, I'm kind of torn on him, but I'd rather see Steve Garvey inducted because he was the Boggs and Ripken of the 70's!

I think we're going to start to see more HOFer's with shorter careers, and only a few top producing seasons due to analytics, money, etc. Players make so much money now they can retire after their second contract and be set financially.

---

Whats with the baines bashing. Hof worthy for sure. Just look at the numbers. McGriff is hof worthy too. Mattingly no. Murphy no.

Baines. 2866 hits 1299 runs 384 hr 1628 rbi
Mattingly 2153 hits 1007 runs 222 hr 1097 rbi
Murphy 2111 hits 1197 runs 398 hr 1266 rbi
Mcgriff. 2490 hits 1349 runs 493 hr 1550 rbi

Baines is quantity, not quality, just like Bill Madlock's 4 batting titles.

---

Whats with the baines bashing. Hof worthy for sure. Just look at the numbers. McGriff is hof worthy too. Mattingly no. Murphy no.

Baines. 2866 hits 1299 runs 384 hr 1628 rbi
Mattingly 2153 hits 1007 runs 222 hr 1097 rbi
Murphy 2111 hits 1197 runs 398 hr 1266 rbi
Mcgriff. 2490 hits 1349 runs 493 hr 1550 rbi

If Baines is a HOFer, then so is Rusty Staub. Staub actually has impressive seasons that stand out at first glance!