[tweeder64]

Thanks Again Oneofakindcards and Crossada for the replies. I'm gonna have to read about that 2006 topps compliance issue. So basically cards like bowman chrome prospects are Prospect cards even if they come out 3 years before the player breaks into the bigs and has his "true" rc. From the little that I have seen these prospect cards seem to be more desirable. I'm not to worried about making any money or selling. I am giving myself around $50 a week to get back into the swing of things and just wanted to try and limit my "stupid" purchases.

Thanks Again
Joe

[woogie23]

If you're buying boxes, good luck on making "smart" purchases! heh Just have fun with it, if it's not fun then you're doing it wrong!

[oneofakindcards]

You're saying nobody would care if Bowman didn't have MLB logos... but this would make Bowman the same as Pro Debut or Minor League Heritage at best.

Why doesn't Topps even bother to make chrome versions of Pro Debut or Minor League Heritage? One answer is lack of demand, another answer is that it doesn't want a product to potentially compete with chrome Bowman products.

Cards of minor league subjects just wouldn't be nearly as popular if none had MLB logos, which is unfortunate. Without MLB logos, the market for minor league cards would be about the same as what it was in the 80s - only *real* collectors would be buying them.

One way prospecting (MLB licensed MiLB subjects) keeps the hobby down in part is because it oversupplies the market with MLB-licensed cards...think of how players have hundreds of different MLB cards before they reach the majors... IF they even reach the majors. Prospecting also often introduces people into the hobby that aren't interested in collecting.

Topps also uses prospectors to raise short-term card values so that it seems modern cards are as good as an investment as vintage cards; this way Topps can produce MLB-licensed cards at a rate similar to what they did in the late 80s.

Prospecting and grading can't help the hobby grow, it can only keep it from completely going away at best. The hobby can grow without them, just like it did before the mid-90s when modern prospecting was introduced and grading became more mainstream.

Topps is pulling all the strings here. Too bad there isn't an oversight body in the hobby.

Huh? Am I working in the sports card industry? Why would it need to be re-written? Nobody cares about seeing the MLB logo on cards. I'd be willing to bet that most individuals didn't know it was on a card or assumed it was on both. I stated that prospect cards in general are worth more than rc cards, which is true MLB license or not. Prospect cards with no MLB license have a very small market in comparison but still demand a higher premium in most cases. Prospect cards are bad enough, but no logo prospect cards? Ugh. Pretty much any first prospect release, and some second are going to be worth more than run of the mill rc cards. The only room for discussion is when you get into sp's and high end brands. As for the licensing thing, you are correct. Cards with the logos sell for more than those that don't, including prospect cards released by Leaf, Panini, etc. but their prospect cards will still generally sell better than any Topps series 1 and 2, Finest, Gypsy Queen, Allen and Ginter, etc rc cards.


Also, your going to need to clarify the " modern cards have never increased in popularity" statement because it seems your lumping that into the sports card market crash. Prospecting, along with grading, helped save the sports card industry.

[Hofcollector]

You're saying nobody would care if Bowman didn't have MLB logos... but this would make Bowman the same as Pro Debut or Minor League Heritage at best.

Why doesn't Topps even bother to make chrome versions of Pro Debut or Minor League Heritage? One answer is lack of demand, another answer is that it doesn't want a product to potentially compete with chrome Bowman products.

Cards of minor league subjects just wouldn't be nearly as popular if none had MLB logos, which is unfortunate. Without MLB logos, the market for minor league cards would be about the same as what it was in the 80s - only *real* collectors would be buying them.

One way prospecting (MLB licensed MiLB subjects) keeps the hobby down in part is because it oversupplies the market with MLB-licensed cards...think of how players have hundreds of different MLB cards before they reach the majors... IF they even reach the majors. Prospecting also often introduces people into the hobby that aren't interested in collecting.

Topps also uses prospectors to raise short-term card values so that it seems modern cards are as good as an investment as vintage cards; this way Topps can produce MLB-licensed cards at a rate similar to what they did in the late 80s.

Prospecting and grading can't help the hobby grow, it can only keep it from completely going away at best. The hobby can grow without them, just like it did before the mid-90s when modern prospecting was introduced and grading became more mainstream.

Topps is pulling all the strings here. Too bad there isn't an oversight body in the hobby.

No, no. I said nobody cares about the mob logo. You said "MLB logo on cards" so I thought you were referring to the actual MLB logo on the backs of licensed products, which most people don't realize are there. You are absolutely correct minor league cards without logo's wouldn't do well. I actually stated that previously. As for grading and prospecting not helping the hobby grow, they clearly already did. The hobby was all but dead when they came along and now both businesses, and collecting in general, are booming. Topps uses prospecting the same way we collectors do. They bank on the exact same factors we do. Some prospects will shine (if only but for a moment), some will be diamonds in the rough and some will be complete surprises. Your talking as if they are cramming them down our throat. Have they over done them? Yup, because we asked them to. We the collectors set pricing on this stuff and we set them high... because business is booming.

[tweeder64]

One more question. If a player has a prc or rc in both topps chrome and bowman chrome, which is preferred by collectors?

Thanks
Joe

[crossada]

Bowman Chrome always seemed to have a higher following but maybe that has changed in past few years.

[tweeder64]

Thanks Crossada, that's what I was thinking but just wanted to confirm. I noticed on COMC and Ebay more often than not the Bowman Chrome seems to cost a little more. Personally, I like the photography of the topps chrome better but that is just looks.

Thanks
Joe

[JRMdawg311]

Some other thoughts -
Some think its OK for a minor league player's card to show the MLB logo, others don't agree. Many of the former group think its OK (solely?) because the added amount of time the player doesn't have to produce is a naturally volatile period that can produce profit.

An item to look for moving forward - Topps currently employs many methods... and tricks... to increase sales of all its sets, perhaps the greatest is using the MLB license with MiLB subjects. No other sport in collecting has this crazy MLB/MiLB "arrangement". If Topps were to become too desperate for profit and employ too many tricks to sell cards, the MLB licensing of MiLB subjects may go away after hobbyists become disgusted with Topps going too far.

As soon as a player is drafted what does he do? Put on the hat and sometimes the jersey of that team. Why? Because he is now a part of it (even though it may be a few years before he officially plays on that team). Which brings me to my second observation. What other professional sport has a "minor league system" where even the best potential players have to wait in minor league purgatory before their shot at the pros? No other sport. The best players in other sports go straight from high school or college to the pros and learn there but not baseball. So there becomes this waiting period full of expectation that turns into hype for these young players. Why wouldn't Topps try to capitalize off that? Heck most hobbyists demand that Topps provide us with autos of these draft picks. The only ones walking away disgusted are the ones that got burned by investing in the wrong players that flop or people that don't get it and would rather collect vintage.

Being a team collector I'm always excited to see the fresh batch of players drafted by my team. And I'm trying to get their Bowman Chrome Autos quick while their still affordable because they're a part of my favorite team. Do I care that their picture is of them in their Arizona Instructional League Pro uniform? Nope, still has the pro logos...