[bamyanks]

I'm glad he can participate. Personally, I want him in the HOF. Yes, he bet on baseball. It has been reported that he bet on the Reds....to win.......that has not yet be proven. As of right now to my knowledge there is no proof that he did anything to "fix" a game. Did he break the rules by betting? Absolutely. No question. 100% guilty. But I still think that what he did on the field is HOF-worthy despite his shortcomings.

On a side note...did I read somewhere that Gaylord Perry, current HOF'er, admitted to doctoring baseballs, etc.? Didn't that effect outcomes of games, # of K's, etc???? If that is true, then Pete has a strong case.

Sir, Pete Rose SIGNED a paper stating he bet on baseball and later on admitted verbally he bet on baseball. That's all the proof you need!!

As far as Perry goes, the rules do not state if you throw a doctored baseball you're banned from the game and the HOF. However, and this is a BIG however:

1. the rules state if you bet on baseball, manager, players, coaches etc. you're banned from baseball.

2. Rose knew this rule as did everyone else.

3. Rose has admitted to betting on baseball.

So then 4. The a**hole should be forever banned from the game and the HOF. He has never shown any remorse for betting. I'm personal getting sick of you people whining that Rose should be let in. Deal with it and get over it. Next you'll be saying that the steroids are ok.

Geez, this has got to quit. In a way I'm sorry I'm so blunt, but you hit my biggest pet peeve of all time. I'm tired of people breaking rules and then expect to have all the perks.

---

screw rose. screw him for betting on baseball, betting on his won team, for lying about it for 30 years, and only letting out a little more truth when he wants to sell a book to make some money to pay a bookie

screw him. allowing him into any baseball activity is an affront to bart giamatti

and if you dont get why betting on baseball is the original sin of the sport, you know nothing, understand nothing of the sport

byn betting on his own team, he affected the outcome of other games, which effectively gave his team less chance to win in games he didnt bet on.

I'm with you sir!!!!!!!!!! These people just don't understand there are penalties for things you do wrong, but they cry for Pete Rose as much as they can. As far as I'm concerned, Rose has always been an arrogant a**hole. I hope he never gets in!!

[waynetalger]

I agree with the " No Rose" how it any different than:
George Bechtel
Umpire Richard Higham was banned in 1882 for conspiring to help throw a Detroit Wolverines game after Detroit's owner hired a private investigator to check out Higham's background and found that he was an associate of a known gambler. (To date, Higham is the only umpire banned for life.)

Hal Chase of the New York Giants was banned in 1921 for consorting with gamblers and betting on his own teams, among other corrupt practices. (Chase had previously been accused of fixing games as early as 1910, and was reportedly passed over for managerial opportunities due to the allegations. In 1918 Christy Mathewson had suspended Chase mid-season for fixing games, and John McGraw persuaded Mathewson to trade him to the Giants. At the end of the 1919 season, National League president John Heydler found evidence that Chase had indeed taken money from gamblers in 1918. Heydler ordered his immediate release, and no other National League team would sign him. Since no American League team would sign him either, Chase was effectively blackballed from the major leagues. Landis' declaration after the Black Sox trial that no one who bet on baseball would ever be allowed to play is recognized as formalizing the ban.)

Joe Gedeon of the St. Louis Browns was banned in 1920 for allegedly conspiring with the gamblers behind the Black Sox scandal.

Eugene Paulette of the Philadelphia Phillies was banned in 1921 for associating with known gamblers.
Lee Magee of the Chicago Cubs was released just before the season began. Magee sued the Cubs for his 1920 salary and lost; after court testimony proved he had been involved in throwing games and collecting on bets, Landis banned him for life

William B. Cox, Philadelphia Phillies owner, was banned in 1943 for betting on his team's games. (Cox and one of his predecessors, Horace Fogel, were both owners of the Phillies at different times and were both banned, making them thus far the only owners to be banned for life.)




"Shoeless" Joe Jackson
Eddie Cicotte
Chick Gandil
Happy Felsch
Buck Weaver

so how is Rose be allowed to be part of baseball when some of these guys did the very same thing or around the same thing.

Dont tell me time changes things for time does not change People do.

[bonds20001]

I agree with the " No Rose" how it any different than:
George Bechtel
Umpire Richard Higham was banned in 1882 for conspiring to help throw a Detroit Wolverines game after Detroit's owner hired a private investigator to check out Higham's background and found that he was an associate of a known gambler. (To date, Higham is the only umpire banned for life.)

Hal Chase of the New York Giants was banned in 1921 for consorting with gamblers and betting on his own teams, among other corrupt practices. (Chase had previously been accused of fixing games as early as 1910, and was reportedly passed over for managerial opportunities due to the allegations. In 1918 Christy Mathewson had suspended Chase mid-season for fixing games, and John McGraw persuaded Mathewson to trade him to the Giants. At the end of the 1919 season, National League president John Heydler found evidence that Chase had indeed taken money from gamblers in 1918. Heydler ordered his immediate release, and no other National League team would sign him. Since no American League team would sign him either, Chase was effectively blackballed from the major leagues. Landis' declaration after the Black Sox trial that no one who bet on baseball would ever be allowed to play is recognized as formalizing the ban.)

Joe Gedeon of the St. Louis Browns was banned in 1920 for allegedly conspiring with the gamblers behind the Black Sox scandal.

Eugene Paulette of the Philadelphia Phillies was banned in 1921 for associating with known gamblers.
Lee Magee of the Chicago Cubs was released just before the season began. Magee sued the Cubs for his 1920 salary and lost; after court testimony proved he had been involved in throwing games and collecting on bets, Landis banned him for life

William B. Cox, Philadelphia Phillies owner, was banned in 1943 for betting on his team's games. (Cox and one of his predecessors, Horace Fogel, were both owners of the Phillies at different times and were both banned, making them thus far the only owners to be banned for life.)




"Shoeless" Joe Jackson
Eddie Cicotte
Chick Gandil
Happy Felsch
Buck Weaver

so how is Rose be allowed to be part of baseball when some of these guys did the very same thing or around the same thing.

Dont tell me time changes things for time does not change People do.

Amen

[bamyanks]

I agree with the " No Rose" how it any different than:
George Bechtel
Umpire Richard Higham was banned in 1882 for conspiring to help throw a Detroit Wolverines game after Detroit's owner hired a private investigator to check out Higham's background and found that he was an associate of a known gambler. (To date, Higham is the only umpire banned for life.)

Hal Chase of the New York Giants was banned in 1921 for consorting with gamblers and betting on his own teams, among other corrupt practices. (Chase had previously been accused of fixing games as early as 1910, and was reportedly passed over for managerial opportunities due to the allegations. In 1918 Christy Mathewson had suspended Chase mid-season for fixing games, and John McGraw persuaded Mathewson to trade him to the Giants. At the end of the 1919 season, National League president John Heydler found evidence that Chase had indeed taken money from gamblers in 1918. Heydler ordered his immediate release, and no other National League team would sign him. Since no American League team would sign him either, Chase was effectively blackballed from the major leagues. Landis' declaration after the Black Sox trial that no one who bet on baseball would ever be allowed to play is recognized as formalizing the ban.)

Joe Gedeon of the St. Louis Browns was banned in 1920 for allegedly conspiring with the gamblers behind the Black Sox scandal.

Eugene Paulette of the Philadelphia Phillies was banned in 1921 for associating with known gamblers.
Lee Magee of the Chicago Cubs was released just before the season began. Magee sued the Cubs for his 1920 salary and lost; after court testimony proved he had been involved in throwing games and collecting on bets, Landis banned him for life

William B. Cox, Philadelphia Phillies owner, was banned in 1943 for betting on his team's games. (Cox and one of his predecessors, Horace Fogel, were both owners of the Phillies at different times and were both banned, making them thus far the only owners to be banned for life.)




"Shoeless" Joe Jackson
Eddie Cicotte
Chick Gandil
Happy Felsch
Buck Weaver

so how is Rose be allowed to be part of baseball when some of these guys did the very same thing or around the same thing.

Dont tell me time changes things for time does not change People do.

Very well said!!! +100000

[Odyssey]

So then 4. The a**hole should be forever banned from the game and the HOF. He has never shown any remorse for betting. I'm personal getting sick of you people whining that Rose should be let in. Deal with it and get over it. Next you'll be saying that the steroids are ok.

Geez, this has got to quit. In a way I'm sorry I'm so blunt, but you hit my biggest pet peeve of all time. I'm tired of people breaking rules and then expect to have all the perks.

We're all entitled to our opinions but you shouldn't get this upset when someone else thinks differently than you do. I get it, he broke the rules and I understand why you could despise the guy for this. It's just that most of us that support Rose would agree that gambling is nowhere near as bad as taking performance enhancing drugs to get ahead of the competition. Yeah he may be a jackass, a prick, liar, and a rule breaker but the HOF has plenty of those.

So what if he "whores" himself out for money. People do what they can to make a living and his is signing baseballs, pictures, and doing meet and greets. Baseball isn't going to be around forever and eventually the money dries up so he isn't doing anything differently from what a politician, actor, or any other prominent sports figure does when that happens.

I don't think the rules he broke warrant him from being excluded from the HOF like I think Bonds, A-Rod, McGuire, and Sosa do. Even here some people will argue those 4 belong in the HOF because they think that entire era was tainted and that's cool. In the end we just have to agree to disagree by using our intellects and not raw emotion.

---

Wayne, your argument is very well put and that's why, even against what I'd like to see, Rose will never make the HOF. The logic and consistency of Baseballs punishment to gamblers only reinforces this.

[Hofcollector]

Let's face it, Shoeless belongs in the HOF. The other Black Sox fixed the game. They don't. Rose belongs in because there is notorious gamblers already in. Either take them out or let him in. By all accounts he never fixed a game. Cobb and Speaker did. They were caught and the evidence was paid to go away by the president of the league, Ban Johnson. Cobb's claim of letters being misunderstood and being related to business investments is crap. If they are allowed to stay, he should be allowed in. If you were to tell me that they need to go and that's why Rose shouldn't be in, I'd be fine with that. As for "times change", they did. It's unfortunate for Rose because had they not, being the all time hits leader meant you got stay in baseball regardless of how much of a scumbag you were.

[bamyanks]

Hey, I'm fine with taking them out if that's the case. But my big point about Rose is, and I don't think anyone gets it, when he was betting, the rules stated at the time that if you were betting on baseball, you would be banished out of baseball and not be allowed in the HOF. So, he broke the rule and he should pay the penalty. This is the part I don't get, how everyone can say he should be let in when he broke the rule. As far as I'm concerned if Cobb, speaker et. al did break the rules, then yes, get them out. But DO NOT whine about Rose. He broke the rule and knew the penalty.

[madamson]

Hey, I'm fine with taking them out if that's the case. But my big point about Rose is, and I don't think anyone gets it, when he was betting, the rules stated at the time that if you were betting on baseball, you would be banished out of baseball and not be allowed in the HOF. So, he broke the rule and he should pay the penalty. This is the part I don't get, how everyone can say he should be let in when he broke the rule. As far as I'm concerned if Cobb, speaker et. al did break the rules, then yes, get them out. But DO NOT whine about Rose. He broke the rule and knew the penalty.

It's too bad you don't believe people deserve a 2nd chance, since the glorious owner of your beloved Yankees was suspended for life in 1989 but got reinstated. He did things that he shouldn't have, but got another chance...why shouldn't Pete? It's just my opinion that he should get another shot at being affiliated with MLB. My first post on this thread was blasted by you. It would be appreciated if you disagree with someone to do so in a little more respectful way.

[Hofcollector]

Hey, I'm fine with taking them out if that's the case. But my big point about Rose is, and I don't think anyone gets it, when he was betting, the rules stated at the time that if you were betting on baseball, you would be banished out of baseball and not be allowed in the HOF. So, he broke the rule and he should pay the penalty. This is the part I don't get, how everyone can say he should be let in when he broke the rule. As far as I'm concerned if Cobb, speaker et. al did break the rules, then yes, get them out. But DO NOT whine about Rose. He broke the rule and knew the penalty.

No one's whining about him not being in the HOF man. This thread started out about the all star game participation. Several of the Rose nay sayers took it there immediately and we all had to listen to the bitching and moaning about him being a cheat. Since we (the fans) cannot take Cobb and Speaker out, and the HOF certainly isn't going to do it, it stands to reason that Rose should be allowed in due to previous standards set.

[zeprock]

I posted this before on another thread dealing with this same topic.

When God told Adam and Eve to have fun and enjoy all that the garden of Eden had to offer, just don't eat the fruit of this one tree, they went and ate it anyway so God told them to get the hell out of the garden. They were sorry, realized what they were missing out on but couldn't come crawling back saying please, please, we won't do it again.

When MLB told Pete Rose to have fun and enjoy all that the Major Leagues had to offer, just don't break this one rule, Pete went and did it anyway so MLB told him to get the hell out of the game. He was sorry, realized what he was missing out on but can't come crawling back.

Personally I think Pete Rose had a place in the Hall of Fame and I wish he could undo what he did and be there but I think Pete Rose is the one responsible for keeping Pete Rose out. For that I can't be mad at MLB. I have to be mad at Pete Rose.

As far as the original post of Pete being at the All-Star Game, good for Pete. He doesn't deserve the honor but Cincinnati does. He's a major part of that town's history.