[kblougou]

I was wondering if any kind of data existed on the industry ?

I think I read somewhere that it's a 200 M $ industry now (25% of what it used to be), but I don't know if it's only baseball, or if it includes all the other sportscards ? Card manufacturers have never given production totals during the junk era, but I seem to understand that they do now ?

I'd really be curious to know if basketball cards crashed a little less than baseball, for example, since there was no strike in 94 nor were there PED scandals

[wordsense]

idk, but I imagine Topps cornering the market like they have probably isn't good for anybody except Topps.

[richk]

Well that is probably ONLY for new items, if you include all the high powered auction houses and EBay, Beckett Auctions (have to plug them here it is their site); SportsLots and all sorts of sites we are not mentioning, I bet the total dollar volume is about where it was in 1991 if not higher. Just more spread out and less focused on new cases.

[kblougou]

Well, yes, I imagine that the secondary market is even bigger than it used to be, considering the sheer amount of product available.
But there's no secondary market without a primary one..hehe..anyone from Topps around here ??

And how does Upper Deck survive today ?

[djohn]

Well that is probably ONLY for new items, if you include all the high powered auction houses and EBay, Beckett Auctions (have to plug them here it is their site); SportsLots and all sorts of sites we are not mentioning, I bet the total dollar volume is about where it was in 1991 if not higher. Just more spread out and less focused on new cases.

I would have to disagree with you on that. The dollar volume is definitely less. While there are more common places for people to buy and sell, the number of places is nowhere near what it was 10-20 years ago. There really are only a small handful of online stores, and they are typically using inventory from multiple sources (i.e. eBay, SportLots, and even COMC do not actually own the cards being sold, but rather provide an avenue for others to sell their cards). Since there are only a handful of marketplaces the dollars per marketplace is higher, however in the past the business was much more spread out with a ton more marketplaces (i.e. card shops, shows, mail order, small websites with their own inventory, and even bulletin board and email auctions). So while it might seem like there is more money being spent, I think the size of the overall market is much smaller. Similarly new product is getting more and more expensive, however the product is much more limited in production than in the past which means the total number of people buying product has diminished.

[franktoronto]

djohn makes very good points.

The market is without question only a portion of what it was during the early 90's. At that point, it boomed (and busted) and it has never been as mainstream as it was then.

Today, it is a niche market with "super collectors" and case breakers buoying it. There are less collectors purchasing more product releases today but not enough to be anywhere close to the size of the market that it once was.

Personally, I don't feel that there is a need for the market to return to that level. However, there is a need to make the hobby more accessible to new and young collectors.

[jwhuckfeldt]

I love this topic since I can talk semi intelligently about it. Cards now-a-days are targeted more for the collector rather than kids. Perhaps that's part in parcel to kids having less of an interest in sport cards due to iPhones, iPads and other tech stuff. Baseball cards were an awesome part of my childhood and I can still remember the moment I got my first David Robinson rookie and Ken Griffey Jr. Upper Deck rookie. Cards were much more affordable then making them more available to a larger audience. Packs used to cost $0.65 to $1.00 per pack in 1989. I understand that inflation is going to take its toll but now you're paying eight times as much for 1/3 of the cards per pack.

The autos and GU cards are definitely well thought out but there are so many sets to keep track. When I was a kid you had a choice of Topps, Fleer, Donruss and Upper Deck. If you wanted to get rare cards, you'd buy the Tiffany or Glossy or Baseball's Best versions, if you could find them...pre-interwebs.

I see a lot of the cards today selling for hundreds of dollars because it's a 3 of 10 produced auto or GU edition. Perhaps its a chrome or platinum or refractor or superfractor.

Realistically, kids today can't afford the cards produced and I don't think they can fathom the value of a rare card pulled from a pack, let alone handle the thing properly. I, for one, would be an advocate for card companies to produce lower quality sets for the average collector like me rather than inundate the market with cards accessible by a select few. Have a good mixture of both that appeases a wider audience. Imagine the awesomeness of trading cards with your kid?

Here's a good case in point. I saw a graded BGS 9.5 LeBron James Rookie with all the bells and whistles selling for $150,000.00. When I was a kid, the 1989 Ken Griffey Jr. Upper Deck rookie was the premier in any kid's collection and that's only worth about $150.00 graded at BGS 9.5. Sport card producers, in my humble opinion, have lost sight of who their audience should be, or at least include.

[jhyde77]

Jw, I think you're right. I dont think the root reason is electronics. When I was a kid in the late 80s/early 90s, my friends and I found a way to have video games, music, movies and baseball cards. The thing that really hooked us was that you could go to any gas station and buy a pack for 50 cents to a dollar. If there had not been the 50 cent pack and a superstar rookie ( Griffey) , I know that I would not have started collecting. If packs had been $2, I wouldve questioned the value. I think today's kids see packs as $3 for a shot at an autograph or game used. They figure the odds are pretty long of them getting an autograph they want or can sell. At $3 a pop, I dont think they even think about set building. I dont blame them for not collecting. I would be putting my grass cutting money into electronics and digital content too.

[djohn]

Jw, I think you're right. I dont think the root reason is electronics. When I was a kid in the late 80s/early 90s, my friends and I found a way to have video games, music, movies and baseball cards. The thing that really hooked us was that you could go to any gas station and buy a pack for 50 cents to a dollar. If there had not been the 50 cent pack and a superstar rookie ( Griffey) , I know that I would not have started collecting. If packs had been $2, I wouldve questioned the value. I think today's kids see packs as $3 for a shot at an autograph or game used. They figure the odds are pretty long of them getting an autograph they want or can sell. At $3 a pop, I dont think they even think about set building. I dont blame them for not collecting. I would be putting my grass cutting money into electronics and digital content too.

I agree, and more so that even if they do buy the $3 packs of cards when they take them to a card shop or want to trade with someone they are told they simply have junk commons and basic inserts that nobody wants. Even when they hit that rare autograph or relic card, unless it happens to be a superstar they still are turned away by dealers. So the kids get thinking why would I want to keep buying this junk if nobody else wants it. The biggest problem is that there is such a large discrepancy in cost between desirable products and entry-level products. The card companies say the entry-level is for the kids but as soon as the kids find out that the cards are worthless they move on from the hobby. Back in the 80s and early 90s there was only 1 product launched per company, so it wasn't like some people were buying $100 packs while others were buying $1 packs. Everything was around the same price. Even when at the time "high-end" packs came out they were still just a couple dollars per pack (well within the reach of a child saving his allowance). Now you have multi-thousand dollar packs, hundred dollar packs, and the average pack around a few dollars a piece. It is essentially pricing kids out of the hobby. Even when the card companies throw a $1 pack out for the kids, they have a hard time justifying the purchase when they are told the cards are worthless.