How do I know that what I bought is the real deal? I don't. I don't even know that the vintage cards I bought are real. Some of my favorite cards are part of my vintage PC, going all the way back to a few 1887 Old Judges. (Hate to burst your bubble, but I would suspect it is far more common to buy a forged old vintage card from some random seller than a fake auto from Topps.) On the other hand, I choose not to be so completely paranoid of buying a fake auto/relic that it shapes my entire collection and collecting habits. In fact, I personally think that people who make decisions and pass on different items or situations because they are afraid of what "might be" are missing out on a lot of "what is". Just my 2 cents.
(08-10-2012, 08:07 PM)joe callahan13 Wrote: [ -> ]How do I know that what I bought is the real deal? I don't. I don't even know that the vintage cards I bought are real. Some of my favorite cards are part of my vintage PC, going all the way back to a few 1887 Old Judges. (Hate to burst your bubble, but I would suspect it is far more common to buy a forged old vintage card from some random seller than a fake auto from Topps.) On the other hand, I choose not to be so completely paranoid of buying a fake auto/relic that it shapes my entire collection and collecting habits. In fact, I personally think that people who make decisions and pass on different items or situations because they are afraid of what "might be" are missing out on a lot of "what is". Just my 2 cents.
I agree, and in fact the most iconic card in the hobby, the PSA 8 T206 Wagner, has been alleged to have been trimmed for years. Now the Federal government has issued an indictment against an individual for doing just that.
We actively participate in a hobby where our most expensive, most well known, most iconic card ... is tainted.
The difference is this. With a vintage card I can educate myself. I can study the card and determine whether it has been altered, is a doctored reprint, etc. I can also consult experts on such cards.
Why? Because I have the entire card in my hands to examine it.
With these relic fragments I have absoloutely nothing to go on. Who authenitcated it? Mears, PSA/DNA, an auction house? What grade did it receive? No idea!
If I learned one thing it's this ... know what you collect. Educate yourself. Become one of the experts.
(08-10-2012, 08:20 PM)bigguy219 Wrote: [ -> ]If I learned one thing it's this ... know what you collect. Educate yourself. Become one of the experts.
Great statement and a solid rule of thumb whether collecting cards or postage stamps.
I'm in my twilight of card collecting and have grown very suspicious of card companies such as Topps rewording relics, items or whatever they call them now. I refuse to dump money into a hobby where card manufacturers focus more on profit than customer service and quality.
My 2 cents.........
Cards are simple things - or rather they should be. Without a doubt, the more 'complicated' cards become - with gu, autos, low numbers - the more likely shaninigans are likely to ensue with unscrupulous sellers looking to take financial advantage of collectors somehow.
Just because some of the cards in the '80s and '90s were over-produced, it doesn't make them ugly or under-loved.
(08-10-2012, 11:03 PM)oneofakindcards Wrote: [ -> ]Just because some of the cards in the '80s and '90s were over-produced, it doesn't make them ugly or under-loved.
+1 Just bc we make jokes about 89 donruss still being printed doesn't devalue them, and others of that era, in my eyes. These are the cards of my youth, and I will still buy the Mantle Chase boxes etc knowing that is what I am going to get in the blaster b/c I love the cards. Not only that, my 9 yr old who has never heard of any of these guys loves them. They are just cardboard with a picture, but they connection to the past, to moments shared with fathers, and passing those onto sons and daughter, is priceless. I'll buy boxes of late 80 Fleers and the like and open them with my kids over any modern relic anyday.
I have an unspoken rule when it comes to buying vintage player game used cards, DONT BUY ANYTHING AFTER 2004!!!
Thats is the year both Topps and Upper Deck changed the wording on the back.
It USED TO say "Congratulations you have just receive a game used _______ card used by _______ in an official _______ game. enjoy your card."
Now it just says "Game used memorabilia".
They dont say what it is, who it was used by and if it was in a game or not. It may picture a certain player, but the card itself is not stating that the peice of "memorabilia" was actually used by that player.
As a fan of baseball I could not quit collecting modern cards just like I could not denounce vintage cards. I do keep a careful watch on what game-used cards I buy, especially "high-end" patch cards and HOF cards.
I mainly collect Pirates cards, but grew up watching the Braves on TBS so I will pick up Klesko, Javy, Maddux and others. I prefer Clemente, Stargell, and Maz...but I also enjoy certain players who played before I was born, like Luis Tiant.
Bottom line is collect what you like, enjoy it, and stay educated on the hobby b/c their are always people who do things to ruin the hobby.
~Jim
(08-10-2012, 06:59 PM)bigguy219 Wrote: [ -> ]My concern remains with the back catalog of legends.
Legends who have countless forgeries, counterfeits, etc. on the secondary market.
Legends who were retired decades before Topps ever produced a card.
Mine too, Most of the old stuff as been verified by an 'expert'..like the old bats, they may or may not have been game used.
http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDeta...-Cap-Anson
I actually feel bad for you. I still crave opening 93 Bowman and collating the Shi t out of them, reading the backs, sniffing them...and I have quite the collection. I hope I never become so "thoughtful" that I analyze the fabric in front of me to death. Take the cardboard for what it is, little pieces of art, as it was in 1958, and as it was in 1911.
(08-11-2012, 12:09 AM)Vols-1 Wrote: [ -> ]Mine too, Most of the old stuff as been verified by an 'expert'..like the old bats, they may or may not have been game used.
http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDeta...-Cap-Anson
you trust legendary? you understand that legendary is just mastro under a new name, right?