[Semitar]

Hi,

I have developed in interest in trying my hand at collecting basketball cards. I've done some reading however I was hoping to gain some insight from those already experienced with this.

I've given consideration to buying hobby boxes at Dave and Adams or Blowout Cards. I am open to the idea to buying the recent box based off the last draft, and older boxes as long as there are cards that have market values that exceed the cost of the box.

I'm still figuring my way around finding values though. I tried using Card Connection, Beckett and PSA. All this is new so any information would be helpful.

The hard part seems to be knowing which product lines are premium or superior over others. So for example, Panini has a lot of collections for example.

[nickm1123]

It is really tough to gauge value of cards unless you look at completed sales. I used to be big on Beckett Value but found this only held true during trades. However, some people used "sell value" while trading. If I want to know the value of a card typically I use Ebay Completed sales. This will also give you an idea of what specific brands go for. For example you could look at a brand of cards you are looking to purchase, pull up a checklist of that brand, and see what some of the cards go for. Again this isnt exact, but it gives you an idea of what you might get in terms of reselling the cards you get.

[taffster74]

In regards to getting cards that exceed the value of the box - it's a pot-luck draw. Some people seem to have nothing but luck in getting the high value cards/players all the time, some get no luck at all, others .... it varies. Basically, it's a hit and miss league. See it as gambling - sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. For me personally, i see it as a safe gamble regardless of what i get or don't get out of a box re big-price cards as i know that i am still getting value out of a box based collective price of the individual cards.

If you're getting into the hobby purely to make money (i.e investment-purposes only), then you have understand that you won't always be getting what you want. However, if you're getting into it purely for the joy of collecting ... you'll get enjoyment out of it regardless of what you get in boxes.

As to where to purchase your boxes - i say go with Dave and Adams. Why? Customer service that is well above par, biggest range of products, better prices and they're the only store that gives you freebies when you spend over a certain amount in their online store - freebies you get to choose. I also recommend getting your shipping with them via UPS - USPS has proven themselves to be pathetic.

[Semitar]

It is really tough to gauge value of cards unless you look at completed sales. I used to be big on Beckett Value but found this only held true during trades. However, some people used "sell value" while trading. If I want to know the value of a card typically I use Ebay Completed sales. This will also give you an idea of what specific brands go for. For example you could look at a brand of cards you are looking to purchase, pull up a checklist of that brand, and see what some of the cards go for. Again this isnt exact, but it gives you an idea of what you might get in terms of reselling the cards you get.

I am not familiar with Ebay's Completed Sales section, but I will look into it.

Forgive my novice questions - what do you mean by pulling up a checklist?

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In regards to getting cards that exceed the value of the box - it's a pot-luck draw. Some people seem to have nothing but luck in getting the high value cards/players all the time, some get no luck at all, others .... it varies. Basically, it's a hit and miss league. See it as gambling - sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. For me personally, i see it as a safe gamble regardless of what i get or don't get out of a box re big-price cards as i know that i am still getting value out of a box based collective price of the individual cards.

Is there something that I am misunderstanding? Wouldn't a box have to have the high value cards/players in there? I thought that was inherent to the advantage of having a box vs buying packs. I figured packs you take the gamble but the box is the complete set so there is no risk. Am I wrong?

If you're getting into the hobby purely to make money (i.e investment-purposes only), then you have understand that you won't always be getting what you want. However, if you're getting into it purely for the joy of collecting ... you'll get enjoyment out of it regardless of what you get in boxes.

I am not interested in the hobby purely to make money. I am interested in collecting good cards for select, good players though. So I am trying to develop a method for doing that. So if you have any suggestions, I'd appreciate it because I really don't know where to start.

The purpose of this thread was to get guidance on developing a sound approach towards acquiring cards. I am going to create a separate thread asking for help regarding a player whose card I want to get.

I appreciate any and all suggestions

[taffster74]

The whole idea of getting a set in a box is pretty much out the door these days. Even with something low-end and basic like hoops, you will need at least two boxes to complete set. In regards to getting that one card that exceeds what you paid for the box .... that's the gamble. No company will guarantee that every box will contain a "bone fide, big-dollar hit". That just doesn't happen. Like i said, some people seem to be hitting the big card with everything they buy but that's just pure luck on their behalf.

As to suggestions .... i'm a pure hobbiest by nature, so .... I'd suggest you start out working on sets - stuff like, hoops, donruss is a good place to start. If you're happy spending a bit more money then maybe even add in Prizm or prestige to that list. With those products you're getting value for your dollar and you will - on average - get out of the box (es) what you spent. Everything else where you're getting like 6 packs or less per box .... it's a pot-luck draw if you'll break even - meaning, you could just as easily get a dud box as get a top box. I'm making this suggestion so as to make it easy to get into the hobby.

As to a player to collect .... people collect players for any number of reasons. Team, alumni, state, nation (for the international players), jersey number ... that's just naming a few. What i did when i first started collecting a player (patrick Ewing) was i went through what cards i had and a beckett to find a player who was a star but wasn't as high priced as Michael Jordan or Shaquille O'neal. After that .... I picked Jalen rose because he was a lefty like myself, Kevin Garnett because the first card i got of his (1995-96 Collector's choice out of a pack) said he had an "inside game reminiscent of Patrick Ewing" - i was sold. Basically said, people collect players for any number of reasons and really you should pick someone you like. But do keep your budget in mind and don't think you have to get every single card of that player - you'll drive yourself to the white room if you do that!!

[Semitar]

The whole idea of getting a set in a box is pretty much out the door these days. Even with something low-end and basic like hoops, you will need at least two boxes to complete set.

I didn't know that you most likely need two boxes to get a full set. That's good to know.

In regards to getting that one card that exceeds what you paid for the box .... that's the gamble. No company will guarantee that every box will contain a "bone fide, big-dollar hit". That just doesn't happen. Like i said, some people seem to be hitting the big card with everything they buy but that's just pure luck on their behalf.

I understand that some players have value "out the gate" like the 2003 NBA draft class. Let me use Giannis Antetokounmpo for example.

I could be wrong, but I can't imagine his card had any special value when the cards were first processed. I imagined that his cards became valuable when he panned out to become a hot commodity. So I was thinking, why not go buy the set that a given hot card was in and the card pays for the set. Is that thinking wrong?

As to suggestions .... i'm a pure hobbiest by nature, so .... I'd suggest you start out working on sets - stuff like, hoops, donruss is a good place to start. If you're happy spending a bit more money then maybe even add in Prizm or prestige to that list. With those products you're getting value for your dollar and you will - on average - get out of the box (es) what you spent. Everything else where you're getting like 6 packs or less per box .... it's a pot-luck draw if you'll break even - meaning, you could just as easily get a dud box as get a top box. I'm making this suggestion so as to make it easy to get into the hobby.

One thing I can't understand is that outside of a lower print run, what else drives some cards being valuable and others not being as valuable. I thought I could make the process easier by determine what the more premium brands were and considering only focusing on those. Is that sound? Because if it is, I'd like to know what the premium brands are. I don't have a real focus yet outside of knowing that I am trying to determine what Giannis Antetokounmpo card to go after before they get too high. I was thinking to buy a set to guarantee it but I will wait for your feedback.

[taffster74]

As i keep on saying, it's always a gamble whether you buy boxes or packs as whether you hit the big dollar card. If Companies guaranteed a high dollar card in every box, they'd quickly lose money and respect and the price of the products would soon bottom out.

As to what makes a product premium or not .... it all comes down to the packaging and marketing. These day's, anything premium you'd be looking at well over US$100 per box for only a hand full of packs (or, with some products, the box is the pack). Yes, these boxes do guarantee multiple autographs and memorabilia cards as well as a low numbered parallel, but - again - there's no guarantee that every single one of those cards is going to a big marquee player. If, however, you have the finances to spare and don't mind taking the risk, then by all means go ahead. THe products i mentioned in previous are consider low to mid-range. Anything is else is pretty much premium, so stuff like Absolute, Select, Optic, Gold Standard, Limited...

As to Giannis cards getting to high .... don't count on it. Yes, he may be a top player, but he plays in a small-market team that has never really had much success. For example, when i started collecting (back in 1995), Milwaukee had the number one pick in Glenn Robinson. He was a fantastic player and could score in bunches but because of the market, his cards were never as high-priced as they could have been. So market comes into play when it comes to card values also. The only other problem i can see with collecting Giannis is that there are a lot of other people collecting him also.... so there will be some competition.

[Semitar]

As i keep on saying, it's always a gamble whether you buy boxes or packs as whether you hit the big dollar card. If Companies guaranteed a high dollar card in every box, they'd quickly lose money and respect and the price of the products would soon bottom out.

I appreciate you sharing this - can you explain why that is?

Intuitively if I wanted XYZ card...it would seem that I would find out what set it was in (I assume all cards are a part of some set - maybe that's where I have it wrong) and simply buy the set to guarantee I get it. So what do I have wrong?

Am I wrong in assuming that all cards are a part of some complete set? Or am I wrong in assuming that sets are 'complete'?

To me it sounds like if I wanted a particular Karl Anthony Towns card, I could look up what set it was in, buy the set, and it's not in there. Is that what they do?

As to what makes a product premium or not .... it all comes down to the packaging and marketing. These day's, anything premium you'd be looking at well over US$100 per box for only a hand full of packs (or, with some products, the box is the pack).

Wow - would you be willing to help me find a pack costing over $100? I've seen the boxes so I actually want to see a pack, but I am new to this.

THe products i mentioned in previous are consider low to mid-range. Anything is else is pretty much premium, so stuff like Absolute, Select, Optic, Gold Standard, Limited...

I am going to look on Dave and Adam's for these companies. Thanks

As to Giannis cards getting to high .... don't count on it. Yes, he may be a top player, but he plays in a small-market team that has never really had much success. For example, when i started collecting (back in 1995), Milwaukee had the number one pick in Glenn Robinson. He was a fantastic player and could score in bunches but because of the market, his cards were never as high-priced as they could have been. So market comes into play when it comes to card values also. The only other problem i can see with collecting Giannis is that there are a lot of other people collecting him also.... so there will be some competition.

I had no idea that market impacted the card value. I will try to find a modestly priced card.

I really appreciate all of your help.

[Semitar]

Taffster I messed up the quote tags on my response - not sure if you saw it before, but I fixed my post so that it's easier to read now. Thanks for your input.

[taffster74]

getting complete sets these days is also nigh-on impossible. About the only sets you'd be able to get "complete" would be prizm and Hoops - that's complete with all the base cards and RC's. As complete with all inserts - that's what's referred to as a "complete product" and those days are loooooong gone!!!!

As to finding out what card comes in what product .... say you find a listing for a Karl-Anthony Towns Absolute Memorabilia Frequent Flyers card.... that means it's part of the Frequent flyers insert released randomly in the product Absolute Memorabilia. Now when i say released randomly, i mean the inserts are issued randomly. As to getting - or "landing" - that particular card.... good luck. There'd be at least 15 players in that particular set. Say Frequent Flyer cards fall approximately 1 in every 2 boxes of Absolute. That means you have a 1in 2 box chance of getting any player in that insert - not necessarily the KAT card. That's what i mean by a gamble - You might land the KAT card, or you might get the rarest version of the scrub RC from Absolute.

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As to the help, i've been in this hobby for 22 years now - just glad to pass on my years of accumulated knowledge to someone who's willing to listen.