[Hofcollector]

I don't mean to be harsh, but I expressed my personal sentiments in the post above with those who have trouble with the logic involved.

Let's say all cards in a chrome release grade 9.5 (they all seem to don't they?)... so let's say that's a population of 100,000 cards, all graded 9.5. None higher than 9.5, none lower than 9.5. Population is 100% 9.5. Also say the market value of any example is $10. You're saying you'd pay more than $10 for a 9.5 card from that set. Assuming something untoward isn't going on, this isn't a rational action.

Now take the same scenario with but with X number of cards graded, and they all grade 9.5 - 100% population graded 9.5.

Grading premiums take account all cards in the set, not the entire population of cards from all sets.

Your not being harsh at all. I will say you completely lost me though. If there's 100, 000 9.5's and the current market value for card "x" is $10, I'm paying $10 or less.

Print run, population and player desirability determine the value of a card. Nothing else.

However, the initial discussion was whether cards could be "assigned" a value for grades of a 9.5 or 10 and whether a 1/1 would be more valuable if it were graded and in an extremely desirable grade. Sooooo... I have no idea where we are at. My brain hurts.

[osujeffrey]

I think the biggest thing to understand is "No Pricing" is set in stone. Prices will always be reflected by demand. Take for example RG3... If his prices for graded cards were established 2 years ago they would in no way reflect current value and like a Stock would fluctuate daily...

Bottom line is why do you collect?

- If you collect for high grades, awesome go for it.
- if you collect for value just as awesome..
- if you build sets ditto

That's what makes this hobby great..
But I certainly would not collect based on someone else's numerical opinion of a card or the value some third party puts on it... I have a Sage Jarrod Zabransky card which is as valuable to me as my Jim Thorpe card..
(But that's me and my corner of the world)...

[oneofakindcards]

I don't think you're lost at all, you just like the idea of expensive modern cards, even if their pricing isn't based on a rational foundation.

Print run, population and player desirability are not the only factors that determine the value of a card. So do ignorance (in our case here, either real or feigned perhaps), and market manipulation.

Your not being harsh at all. I will say you completely lost me though. If there's 100, 000 9.5's and the current market value for card "x" is $10, I'm paying $10 or less.

Print run, population and player desirability determine the value of a card. Nothing else.

However, the initial discussion was whether cards could be "assigned" a value for grades of a 9.5 or 10 and whether a 1/1 would be more valuable if it were graded and in an extremely desirable grade. Sooooo... I have no idea where we are at. My brain hurts.

[Hofcollector]

I don't think you're lost at all, you just like the idea of expensive modern cards, even if their pricing isn't based on a rational foundation.

Print run, population and player desirability are not the only factors that determine the value of a card. So do ignorance (in our case here, either real or feigned perhaps), and market manipulation.

Your confusing ignorance and market manipulation with something other than desirability which unfortunately it's not. I will say you seem to think both weigh heavily in the market. So either the vast majority of us are clueless and set false market pricing through purchases (and apparently only a select few know what the real pricing should be), or the reality of the situation is that the market just isn't what those select few think it is or should be. I don't like the idea of modern cards being so expensive in particular when sales dwarf high grade vintage hof'ers. However, I cannot deny that the market is that strong that this is the way things are. For me to say that because of modern cards sale prices being so high I believe most collectors to be naive, ignorant or uninformed would be arrogant. This industry is driven by collector demand and while it may not be rational (and it doesn't have to be) it is the industry plain and simple. I am a vintage guy at heart but I got into high end modern because it's so fast paced and there's money to be made. WE set the pricing. WE choose desirability. WE determine how buying, selling, trading takes place. The collecting world as a majority took us to where we are now. Kinda hard to say we're all wrong.