[Phillies_Joe]

Still not understanding why bottom line is hard to figure out.
Bottom line= what is needed by seller and necessary to get a deal done where a seller will be happy with the end result.

The typed word can have a totaly different meaning then when spoken based on the perspective of the reader. "What is your bottom line" means to me, what is the cheapest you will go if I'm reading it, very different than if I'm in an actual conversation (the start of negotiating perhaps). Nobody right or wrong here.

I like Dom's approch.....make an offer on what you think a card is worth with maybe a little message conveying that you would still be interested if they wanted to come back to you later. Regardless of how much of a moron or gougher the seller may be......bottom line, it's thier card, so they can ask what they want for it. Like mentioned above....there are plenty of other cards to chase.

(not enough time or energy to get into the whole lack of respect / courtesey on ebay but I will say it's sad)

[mmahoney]

Neither one of you is technically being an a**hole yet. The question of "what is your bottom line" is a touchy one, and some people get offended by it. One thing to consider is this...did you already make an offer on the card? If not, then it is a little rude to ask for a bottom line, after all the purpose of Best Offer is for a seller to see what a buyer might be willing to pay for a card.
There is this game that some people play (not on eBay but other places) where a seller won't say how much they will sell for and a buyer won't say how much they will spend, as both want to get the best deal. Considering that best offer forces a seller to start with a price, the next move is a buyers to make an offer.
That being said his response was a bit terse, but no more rude than asking him for a bottom line price without first making an offer.

+1

Without at least an offer from you he is basically bidding against himself on his card automatically taking lower. I personally wouldn't respond with my lowest acceptable price. That is why you get 3 chances to bid, for a back and forth negotiation. If your high is above my low we end up somewhere between and both should be happy.

[Hofcollector]

If I were to read "what is your bottom line?" I would definitely assume I'm being asked what's the cheapest I'll go on it. I don't know how to read it any other way. Now, I don't really get being offended by that, but that's on this particular seller I guess.

I hate Best Offer feature because I hate haggling. I never use it to sell, but sometimes I'll throw in an offer on Junior cards I want. I always just put what I'm willing to pay. I don't start low and expect to go back and forth to meet where I want. That's dumb. Just put in what you are willing to pay and be done with it. Which is why I always reject counters. I should probably start including that information with my offer... In any case, I don't get mad if I don't get it and would assume the seller doesn't get mad at my offer. It's just cardboard.

Basically I was looking for responses to my question to determine whether or not I should re-word my line of questioning. I guess I'm going to have to but no one has ever gotten agitated before. Everyone has replied with a number and I chose to buy at that point or not. If it's fair I'll buy it. I always message back saying thank you for your response regardless of if I buy or not. If I don't buy the item I usually get a message a few days later asking if I was interested in the item. At that point I tell them I am but it's just more than I was looking to spend and I didn't counter because I wasn't looking to offend anyone. Some drop their prices astronomically right then and there. This is kind of my point on asking a bottom line. You don't need to give me your bargain basement price, just what your comfortable with. As I stated before, most sellers aren't going to be honest about their rock bottom price anyway if you asked for it. At any rate, I'll have to rethink my delivery. Thanks for the responses everyone.

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+1

Without at least an offer from you he is basically bidding against himself on his card automatically taking lower. I personally wouldn't respond with my lowest acceptable price. That is why you get 3 chances to bid, for a back and forth negotiation. If your high is above my low we end up somewhere between and both should be happy.

Once again, didn't ask for a lowest acceptable price. Keep in kind I'm not buying $25 auto's. I go after hard to find, rare cards that don't have set market prices. I have been in a position a few times where a seller has an extremely high asking price and I send a fair initial offer but knowing full well it's not going to get it done. Being that I only have 2 bids left and I'm sticking as close to a fair offer as possible I end up running out of bids because I counter but the seller's counters stay hundreds to thousands away from a reasonable price. If I cut to the chase before hand I don't need to do this ridiculous dance and lose my bids and my ability to buy the item.

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The typed word can have a totaly different meaning then when spoken based on the perspective of the reader. "What is your bottom line" means to me, what is the cheapest you will go if I'm reading it, very different than if I'm in an actual conversation (the start of negotiating perhaps). Nobody right or wrong here.

I like Dom's approch.....make an offer on what you think a card is worth with maybe a little message conveying that you would still be interested if they wanted to come back to you later. Regardless of how much of a moron or gougher the seller may be......bottom line, it's thier card, so they can ask what they want for it. Like mentioned above....there are plenty of other cards to chase.

(not enough time or energy to get into the whole lack of respect / courtesey on ebay but I will say it's sad)

Maybe my limited dealings with Ebay has left me with the wrong impression. Most of the seller's I've sent offers to on ridiculously over priced cards have gotten angry and insulted. I figured this would be the best way to tiptoe around people's feelings.

[Gtbrian23]

Matt, personally I will send them an offer originally with what I'm willing to pay. And then when I am down to my last offer and we still haven't reached a point we both agree on I will message them and try to hash something out with them there so I don't run out of offer without getting a deal.

I would say maybe approach it a little differently, maybe say hey I'm interested in your card and wanna work out a deal but before making an offer I wanted to see how flexible you were willing to be. Then base your initial offer on that amount. I say this because people ideas on range for best offer vary. Some people list way high with the intention of coming way down but not wanting to risk missing out on someone that will pay more. But some people list extremely close to what they are willing to take and are only willing to move a few dollars here and there.

This approach may keep you from insulting people insulted by the bottom line question(personally I wouldn't be) as well as give you a ballpark range so as to not insult someone with a lowball offer.

Hope this helps somewhat!

[crossada]

I do agree the 3 strikes your out on the best offer makes dealing very difficult.

I also find if an expensive card is newly listed the sellers won't negotiate at all while they test the waters for awhile. It makes me personally pay more than i'd like to just to get what I want rather than wait hoping a deep pocket collector doesn't show up and get the card before me.

Recently I bought a rather cheap card with best offer. The seller would only take $1 off their original listing which I thought why waste people's time.

[Dub24rollin]

I get what your saying but it's incorrect. You can not have the supplier also be the buyer when dealing with an entity other than itself. While I have to "bid" on some jobs it is the exact opposite of an auction format of buying. It's more along the lines of sellers entering listings on Ebay hoping either, A: Their reputation as a business will get them return customers or B: they are competitively priced enough their items will sell.

When I bid on jobs I never want to be the low guy. That sets a standard in some people's minds that that's the way it should be and they begin to expect you always coming in low. Sometimes I'm told I am the high guy but I get the job anyway because they know what they're going to get.

Very true. As a service providing company it's not always best to be the lowest option. I understand what you're saying.

I could see how your question could have offended him but as a seller he needs to jump on your interest. As a seller you cannot get offended if you want to be successful. You're looking for interest, because interest means opportunity to make $$$. I would have given you a number, not my lowest number, but a number because you are interested. Not a smart move to get offended and lose a potential buyer. He didn't even try to make any money and that kills me! O'well, ignorant sellers just means more opportunities for me!

And, as far as your buying methods....keep doing what you feel like you should do. Sellers that get offended don't want to make money and will never be successful. That goes for eBay and life in general. You did nothing wrong! You're a BUYER. The ball is in your court at all times. That's how buying works.

[GoStros]

Very true. As a service providing company it's not always best to be the lowest option. I understand what you're saying.

I could see how your question could have offended him but as a seller he needs to jump on your interest. As a seller you cannot get offended if you want to be successful. You're looking for interest, because interest means opportunity to make $$$. I would have given you a number, not my lowest number, but a number because you are interested. Not a smart move to get offended and lose a potential buyer. He didn't even try to make any money and that kills me! O'well, ignorant sellers just means more opportunities for me!

This particular seller has a spotless 100% satisfaction rating, with over 19000 transactions. This seller deals in only high quality, high dollar cards. I think they are already VERY successful.

[Hofcollector]

This particular seller has a spotless 100% satisfaction rating, with over 19000 transactions. This seller deals in only high quality, high dollar cards. I think they are already VERY successful.

Just to be clear, 990 of those transactions were purchases and he's been on since 2004. He's looking at about 90 sales a year +/- and I'm not entirely sure you can call Trout update and chrome base refractors high dollar cards. He or she most definitely have a good deal of sales with impeccable feedback but please don't try and make them sound like a Probstein or Mike Denero or black jaded wolf . I've bought from this individual before in the extremely recent past. I've never messaged them because it was an auction style format on graded cards and everything was cut and dry. They know I pay. I now know my wording could have been misinterpreted because individuals here told me so. But being that I sent them a decent chunk of change within the last 2 weeks you would think I wouldn't get such a dismissive answer.

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Very true. As a service providing company it's not always best to be the lowest option. I understand what you're saying.

I could see how your question could have offended him but as a seller he needs to jump on your interest. As a seller you cannot get offended if you want to be successful. You're looking for interest, because interest means opportunity to make $$$. I would have given you a number, not my lowest number, but a number because you are interested. Not a smart move to get offended and lose a potential buyer. He didn't even try to make any money and that kills me! O'well, ignorant sellers just means more opportunities for me!

And, as far as your buying methods....keep doing what you feel like you should do. Sellers that get offended don't want to make money and will never be successful. That goes for eBay and life in general. You did nothing wrong! You're a BUYER. The ball is in your court at all times. That's how buying works.

This is exactly what I mean. Even if I had said, "what is your rock bottom price"?, he is under no obligation to tell me the actual number. Why wouldn't you get the ball rolling and throw out a number? I know I may not be necessarily in the right here but I just dont understand why you'd shy away from making money and being rude along the way.

[GoStros]

What is the POP report for this card in this grade? I am way more into coins than I am card. I specialize in die varieties. In coins, graded examples with low pops always demand a premium. You are a very highly respected member here. I can only assume the same can be said on eBay. You have really let this card get to you. It is by far way above what I am interested in for cards. It would be more like some coins I like. Since it did not sell chances are he might relist. Maybe at a lower starting price. You have now gained some knowledge as to the thought process of this seller. Maybe you could throw a offer price you would be happy with and see what happens. I would chalk this one up to not being face to face with the seller, and the hardships of reading into typed text. Nothing more.

[Hofcollector]

I realize all that now. I originally posted to see if I was using improper etiquette and the thread took off in several different directions. This usually happens. I'm not angry about the card or the seller. There's always other cards and always other sellers. I know I can find that card again elsewhere. I don't believe a card has ever gotten to me, nor a seller. You have to be fairly thick skinned and be able to shrug crap off you in an instant if you want to buy, sell or trade. Your mistaking my constant replies as an apparent increased agitation. It's not. If I start a thread asking for opinions or help I try to comment as much as possible to engage the posters, even if it's argumentative. Ultimately I'm searching for the right answers and while I may argue I always keep the possibility open that I may be wrong, particularly in subjects involving opinions.