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Ok...I'm at a loss
#21

RE: Ok...I'm at a loss
(03-04-2014, 11:33 AM)Marinocollector Wrote: LOL. Pro Set? Millions and millions of cards vs. an /800? Also, you guys feel free to collect the more limited cards all you want, it will not change the perceived value and demand of Contenders vs. everything else. It is your collection and I am not downgrading what you collect, but to disregard a fact of the hobby is ludicrous.

The majority of collectors want consistency and uniformity and value, Playoff Contenders has shown that for the past 16 years. Team collectors, set collectors, investors, player collectors all go for Contenders. Its the ONLY NFL football product that has lasted every year the past 21 years outside of Topps and Score. Sure you can use the SP nobody cards and shake a stick at them, but those are cards of scrubs. Why not showcase the 04 Fitzgerald? Why not show the Drew Brees or the Tom Brady? How about Aaron Rodgers? The peak values of Tony Romo? Its an /999 card that still sells well above its debut price? You guys forget, set collectors finish their sets, and stop. Why not talk about the /23 Tyron Smith that seems to still sell over $600, for an offensive lineman because Cowboy fans want to complete their Contenders run? Kenny Irons was stamped "no autograph" Aaron Kelly still sells over $200+ and Jed Collins dropped big time from the get go. These cards did start amazingly high, but thasts the cool thing about Contenders, a nobody can be a $500 card. A somebody with a production /500 can be a $500+ card. What if that player becomes one of the greatest all time? An /3000 can sell for 4 figures and an /200 can be a $4000 card. What $500 a pack card set can claim that? What other product has that history? None, because no one else collects RC autos from other sets the way people collect Contenders.

ProSet released proline which contained autographs "limited" to 1,000 per player.

As you said, a person becomes an all time great and his unnumbered card, which was printed in the upper hundreds, is worth thousands while a card numbered to /50 or less sells for tons less for no apparent reason.


-they look roughly the same every year
-they are most definitely not limited
-they don't visually stand out
-they are printed on basic card stock like score or topps
-they have known printing issues (this year alone a pile of the cards, including major rookies like Montee Ball, were damaged enough at the bottom during the packaging process to completely sabotage hopes of grading at more than a 6)

Bryce brown had 12 autos from contenders on ebay which averaged around $40 as of this morning. There is one single Rookies and Stars auto and I only know that because I put it there myself when I saw there were none. It'll end up selling somewhere around $3.

When beckett runs the polls asking what people look for in a card, they list everything that forms the antithesis of Contenders

-scarcity
-quality
-visual appeal
-originality of design

There should be a block that just says "contenders....because I was told they were good"

(03-04-2014, 01:05 PM)jeremy7269 Wrote: If a player comes out of no where so to speak, you can almost gaurantee he will have a rookie auto in contenders. Its like you're buying the lotto ticket well before the drawing.
That is true. I've noticed other sets starting to follow this pattern. I enjoy the ability to obtain autos from players who would have only had a "First Topps Card" in ages past. On the other hand, opening a box and getting THREE Cobi Hamilton autos in the same sealed box was a massive let down. Nobody likes getting a player who didn't make the roster. I especially don't like dropping cash on a box of cards and getting three of the same auto. Just happened. Box was straight from the distributor so it wasn't some repackaged eBay box.

How super Iconic of you Contenders.....

My other box only cost me $85. UD Ultimate

Pulled an Eddie Lacy 1997 legends auto. Five exist. No variations. THAT is what I want in my collection


I don't know if you can tell how bitter I am about that Cobi Hamilton stunt...lol!
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#22

RE: Ok...I'm at a loss
(03-04-2014, 01:05 PM)jeremy7269 Wrote: If a player comes out of no where so to speak, you can almost gaurantee he will have a rookie auto in contenders. Its like you're buying the lotto ticket well before the drawing.
This, in my opinion, is the single biggest argument for Contenders. It is consistently the one product that seems to cover every rookie including kickers. From a set builder perspective, it's the one set to get everybody.

The unknown guys are where the value lies. The reality is hot and elite players (Rodgers, Brees, Luck etc), will be expensive no matter what product.

I'm not devaluing the significance of Contenders. I still pick up players I like. As a collector, though, to know that 800 other collectors can do the exact same thing takes away some (not all) of the specialness of being a collector.

Putting together an encounter series numbered to 25 or less.....that's pretty sweet!
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#23

RE: Ok...I'm at a loss
Card board is card board.
Quinton Patton's GU and Autos

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#24

RE: Ok...I'm at a loss
I agree. As much as I like any given player, he's just some dude I don't know in the end. likely never come over for dinner or an xBox jam jam session. Likely just as bad as I am about paying parking tickets late and I'm probably a decade older than the majority of the rookies.

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#25

RE: Ok...I'm at a loss
That is why I chose Quinton Patton to collect during the Playoffs. He looks like he will be a good Wide Reciever. If you see some of his game play on youtube, he isn't that bad. You can get is stuff at a ral good price. I am getting his stuff before the season starts. If he breaks out, atleast I will have a good chunk of his cards at a affordable rate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY9dYd_VarY


(03-04-2014, 04:43 PM)GnC_Fricker Wrote: I agree. As much as I like any given player, he's just some dude I don't know in the end. likely never come over for dinner or an xBox jam jam session. Likely just as bad as I am about paying parking tickets late and I'm probably a decade older than the majority of the rookies.
Quinton Patton's GU and Autos

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#26

RE: Ok...I'm at a loss
Contenders is to football as Bowman is to baseball. It is THE premier RC auto to have. It's that simple. That perception drives demand and that demand drives prices.
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Always looking for Arian Foster, Josh Hamilton, and Walter Payton
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#27

RE: Ok...I'm at a loss
I totally get the OPs position. There is zero "reason" why any product is more valuable than the other....

Except one thing. The consumer. The consumer on this product FOR YEARS has made this a staple. A staple for set building and a staple for the "chase." Who'd have been happy pulling a Tom Brady auto in 2000? Who'd have been pulling a Hines Ward in 1998? No one!!! They'd rather pull a Curtis Ennis.

It's demand that raises prices - it's not some machine that does this.

I personally don't care for the product, but you're darn sure I traded for a Blair Walsh (a kicker, mind you) as soon as it was released. It was his ONLY card at the time.

New brands are gimmicky, they are...and they disappear quickly. Chrome, Contenders, Sp Authentic (in the past)....that was the bomb.
In 2004, you weren't even guaranteed an auto in Topps Chrome. I bought boxes after boxes - I loved that brand.
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#28

RE: Ok...I'm at a loss
(03-04-2014, 09:52 PM)ugameck Wrote: I totally get the OPs position. There is zero "reason" why any product is more valuable than the other....

Except one thing. The consumer. The consumer on this product FOR YEARS has made this a staple. A staple for set building and a staple for the "chase." Who'd have been happy pulling a Tom Brady auto in 2000? Who'd have been pulling a Hines Ward in 1998? No one!!! They'd rather pull a Curtis Ennis.

It's demand that raises prices - it's not some machine that does this.

I personally don't care for the product, but you're darn sure I traded for a Blair Walsh (a kicker, mind you) as soon as it was released. It was his ONLY card at the time.

New brands are gimmicky, they are...and they disappear quickly. Chrome, Contenders, Sp Authentic (in the past)....that was the bomb.
In 2004, you weren't even guaranteed an auto in Topps Chrome. I bought boxes after boxes - I loved that brand.
And, that's what made Chrome so valuable. Now, the boxes and cases are over priced. SP Authentic was great for all of the on card autos.

I feel the over all quality of Contenders has gone down, especially for 2009. 2011 and standard autos in 2012. The Cracked Ice cards are different, for sure.

I just read a post on the BO forum from a guy who just got a BGS order back. All Contenders, all 10 and 9.5's. There were about 18 cards. That told be 2 things:

1) For the most part, these seem to grade high and

2) if you pull one that gets a 9 or less, you will feel cheated no matter who you pull from Contenders.

I'd love to see comments from people who collect Contenders a year or 2 out to see if they still feel this overhyped product was still worth what they paid for it at the time of release. Of course, this could be said for most products.

That's why I might buy one box now at the release and pick any singles a year or two out. You can almost always find them....especially at a cheap price.
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#29

RE: Ok...I'm at a loss
(03-04-2014, 01:09 PM)GnC_Fricker Wrote: ProSet released proline which contained autographs "limited" to 1,000 per player.

As you said, a person becomes an all time great and his unnumbered card, which was printed in the upper hundreds, is worth thousands while a card numbered to /50 or less sells for tons less for no apparent reason.


-they look roughly the same every year
-they are most definitely not limited
-they don't visually stand out
-they are printed on basic card stock like score or topps
-they have known printing issues (this year alone a pile of the cards, including major rookies like Montee Ball, were damaged enough at the bottom during the packaging process to completely sabotage hopes of grading at more than a 6)

Bryce brown had 12 autos from contenders on ebay which averaged around $40 as of this morning. There is one single Rookies and Stars auto and I only know that because I put it there myself when I saw there were none. It'll end up selling somewhere around $3.

When beckett runs the polls asking what people look for in a card, they list everything that forms the antithesis of Contenders

-scarcity
-quality
-visual appeal
-originality of design

There should be a block that just says "contenders....because I was told they were good"

Sigh.... Pro Set did not release Pro Line... The NFL released the original Pro Line set to advertise their Pro Line clothing line. When it was apparent this was a major conflict of interest, they sold the brand to Classic. Also, the production of the Pro Line signatures varies greatly. Some are limited below 100, some are productions of 5000+.

I think the description is a perfect example of a consumer not knowing what they want. Number one thing a consumer truly wants is value. Its pointless for 90% of collectors to own an item that is worth less than what they paid for. Value is in branding, and the Contenders brand has shown it has value.

I also never said the non-Contenders sell for less for no apparent reason. You obviously do not understand branding or consumer confidence. The consumer wants to make their buying decisions as easy as possible. They want value for their money. Contenders has forged the way for over 15 years with the autograph rookie ticket, proving itself to be a staple in the hobby. A great product is not typically a one and done product. It builds confidence and shows its value over time. Every year since 1999, Contenders has the hottest RCs. They won the great debate of SPA vs Contenders when UD lost its license.

By your post, I can see why you do not like the product. I really do not care for it either. Still, I cannot understand how you cannot see branding in place and the value the brand has created over the years. Sure some of the cards have lost, but there has been some INCREDIBLE gains as well.

Trying to finish these sets:
1999 SPX Radiance /100
1997 Upper Deck MVPs Gold /100
2000 Leaf Piece of the Game Preview 4th Down
2008 Premier NFL Equipment /25

Let me know if you have any available.
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#30

RE: Ok...I'm at a loss
Missed the entire point. I understand branding which is exactly why I pointed at Sony as an example. Branding and advertising overriding the collectors prefrontal cortex is what I questioned. People spending a grand on a card defiantly takes them out of the unsuspecting novice collector category and I'm surprised a true collector would bleed money for a bad investment based simply on the "everyone else is doing it" branding argument.

I actually don't mind the set. I start minding it when a mediocre quality presentation starts hurting the investment value of newer sets which possess some pretty impressive, and attractive, design ideas.

I didn't say contenders didn't have a long history and wasn't branded well. I said it can't even begin to compare to some of the higher end sets as far as quality, originality, or limited availability, yet; somehow is valued more because it has the "Nike Swoosh" contenders name.

Blind homage to middling quality hurts collecting because the newer card sets will have no reason to dedicate money to higher quality if people are willing to pay for cards that look like something from score but with more autos.


I'm just expressing my opinions by the way. From your "sigh..." I'm to assume you have taken something I have said as personal to you?

You're correct about the Proline, I'd always thought that was a ProSet brand. my mistake.
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