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UD continues to use the word, "ROOKIE..."
#31

RE: UD continues to use the word, "ROOKIE..."
(07-02-2013, 03:22 PM)coachlew10 Wrote: "There is no rule or law that states a player must be on a licensed product for it to be considered a rookie." The quoted sentence above is absolutely false. The market and consumer decide what they buy, true, but they are not the group that determines a RC card from a first year card. There are absolute facts in terms of what a RC card is and is not to think otherwise flys in the face of the foundation of this hobby. The definition of what is a Rookie Card was made by the almighty BECKETT. They determine what is and is not a rookie and since UD lost their license, they do not list Upper Deck products as Rookies any longer. As far as the value of the Michael Jordans currently, the Star company Michael Jordan from 85-86 Gem Mint graded 9.5 can be bought for $695. I would love to buy a Gem Mint graded 9.5 BGS 1986-87 Fleer Jordan RC for $695. By the way, age has little to do with being correct, but for the record, I too remember Classic (not rookies) and have been collecting 10 years longer then you.
Gem mint Jordan Star RCs cannot be bought for $695. There were several Jordan cards in 1984-85 Star that can be bought for that price but the one that is considered the RC sells in the thousands. Look it up on Ebay, I just did. And as far as BECKETT goes, all they do is track sells of cards and make their "Price Guide" based on those figures. They list players that are getting hot or cold, list big pulls and do product reviews but they have no authority to decide what is and is not considered a rookie. Period, if not they could sue UD for putting "Rookie" on any of their products that have players in college jerseys because Beckett says that they are not rookies. Its all up to personal opinions. And maybe I did get a little carried away with the classics comments, they were "prospects" and or "draft class" they never said rookie on the card.
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#32

RE: UD continues to use the word, "ROOKIE..."
(07-02-2013, 03:22 PM)coachlew10 Wrote: "There is no rule or law that states a player must be on a licensed product for it to be considered a rookie." The quoted sentence above is absolutely false. The market and consumer decide what they buy, true, but they are not the group that determines a RC card from a first year card. There are absolute facts in terms of what a RC card is and is not to think otherwise flys in the face of the foundation of this hobby. The definition of what is a Rookie Card was made by the almighty BECKETT. They determine what is and is not a rookie and since UD lost their license, they do not list Upper Deck products as Rookies any longer. As far as the value of the Michael Jordans currently, the Star company Michael Jordan from 85-86 Gem Mint graded 9.5 can be bought for $695. I would love to buy a Gem Mint graded 9.5 BGS 1986-87 Fleer Jordan RC for $695. By the way, age has little to do with being correct, but for the record, I too remember Classic (not rookies) and have been collecting 10 years longer then you.
I agree except for the almighty Beckett part... I believe Beckett classified RC's as RC's due to the way people collected and considered what was an RC since the beginning of time. RC's are part of the base set as we all know. Anything else, is just an insert, parallel, variation, blah blah blah.
Collecting Falcons, 3 Color or More Patches!
--- 2011 Rookies and Stars Materials Black Prime Longevity 053 out of 106 found. HELP!
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#33

RE: UD continues to use the word, "ROOKIE..."
(07-02-2013, 02:38 PM)jheringa09 Wrote: ???????????
Nobody considered them rookies back then... No one. Not a single person at a card convention, a card shop, and even the manufacturers themselves. No one said that they were rookie cards... And if you've been collecting for around 24 years, you would've known the NFL took that licensing away from them... Not to put you on the spot or anything, but UD owes and they owe a lot. They only way they can sell efficiently is to advertise the word ROOKIE on their cards. I would not be surprised if Panini or Topps bought them later or a big time company comes through and buys them.
You can never put me on the spot, I knew that UD owed players money for signing and I knew that they lost their license but never looked into if that was the reason they lost their license or whatever the case may have been. I knew they lost it and that's all I needed to know. Collecting cards for that long doesn't mean I have to track down why UD lost their license. LOL Im not here to make any enemies or up set anyone just don't understand why a few of you are so hell bent on why these should not be considered RCs by most collectors. If they weren't then they would not sell for the crazy prices they do in exquisite. If it was just another auto patch #/99 then the big "RCs" would sell for much less as they do in other NFL licensed products compared to their rookies in those products.

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#34

RE: UD continues to use the word, "ROOKIE..."
(07-02-2013, 03:51 PM)s1020 Wrote: You can never put me on the spot, I knew that UD owed players money for signing and I knew that they lost their license but never looked into if that was the reason they lost their license or whatever the case may have been. I knew they lost it and that's all I needed to know. Collecting cards for that long doesn't mean I have to track down why UD lost their license. LOL Im not here to make any enemies or up set anyone just don't understand why a few of you are so hell bent on why these should not be considered RCs by most collectors. If they weren't then they would not sell for the crazy prices they do in exquisite. If it was just another auto patch #/99 then the big "RCs" would sell for much less as they do in other NFL licensed products compared to their rookies in those products.
People are slowly awakening to the fact that they aren't in NFL unis. Most people that are buying UD are player collectors, not NFL franchise specific collectors.
They continue to lose money, and continue to be sued not just by players but by companies such as Konami in the past.
And so they have to market their products as if they still have an NFL license. Given time, UD won't be around. Sad to say, but they won't.
To me, it's the same false advertising as say a card of JaMarcus Russell that states, "Pro Bowler" in big bold gold letters.
Collecting Falcons, 3 Color or More Patches!
--- 2011 Rookies and Stars Materials Black Prime Longevity 053 out of 106 found. HELP!
[Image: StevenJacksonFalconsSmall.jpg]

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#35

RE: UD continues to use the word, "ROOKIE..."
(07-02-2013, 04:05 PM)jheringa09 Wrote: People are slowly awakening to the fact that they aren't in NFL unis. Most people that are buying UD are player collectors, not NFL franchise specific collectors.
They continue to lose money, and continue to be sued not just by players but by companies such as Konami in the past.
And so they have to market their products as if they still have an NFL license. Given time, UD won't be around. Sad to say, but they won't.
To me, it's the same false advertising as say a card of JaMarcus Russell that states, "Pro Bowler" in big bold gold letters.
Lol I agree that if a card company put pro bowler on a jamarcus russell card they should be sued!!
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#36

RE: UD continues to use the word, "ROOKIE..."
EXACTLY why i DONT collect RC's John......
1 - i dont TRUST them...
2 - who the he_l really knows a RC from a non RC...the manufacturers dont even know....what does this say?....yea,...thats what i thought
2007 FotG NFL Prime 130/133
2009 FotG NFL Prime 66/90
2010 FotG NFL Prime 103/103
DONE
http://s877.photobucket.com/user/sto66/l...ECUT%20SET
2011 Playbook Prime 68/95
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#37

RE: UD continues to use the word, "ROOKIE..."
(07-01-2013, 08:43 PM)s1020 Wrote: I agree as I think do most collectors out there, even without an NFL license I do and always will consider them a rookie no matter what the beckett says. No offense to beckett at all but who made them the be all and end all on whats considered a "RC" card. Book Values are a joke also, again I love Beckett but some of the book values are unrealistic. When I go to big shows in Chicago dealers what to know what cards sell for on ebay not what they book at. "Book Values" have become irrelevant.
Book value is irrelevant to me as well. It is all based on sold listings on ebay. I subscribe to beckett football for the product previews
(07-02-2013, 04:05 PM)jheringa09 Wrote: People are slowly awakening to the fact that they aren't in NFL unis. Most people that are buying UD are player collectors, not NFL franchise specific collectors.
They continue to lose money, and continue to be sued not just by players but by companies such as Konami in the past.
And so they have to market their products as if they still have an NFL license. Given time, UD won't be around. Sad to say, but they won't.
To me, it's the same false advertising as say a card of JaMarcus Russell that states, "Pro Bowler" in big bold gold letters.
Disagree. UD is not going anywhere. They just signed an MLBPA deal and could get an NFL license back in the future. They have NHL and golf. They also make Ncaa basketball and Fleer Retro is a nice product as well.
(07-02-2013, 03:51 PM)s1020 Wrote: You can never put me on the spot, I knew that UD owed players money for signing and I knew that they lost their license but never looked into if that was the reason they lost their license or whatever the case may have been. I knew they lost it and that's all I needed to know. Collecting cards for that long doesn't mean I have to track down why UD lost their license. LOL Im not here to make any enemies or up set anyone just don't understand why a few of you are so hell bent on why these should not be considered RCs by most collectors. If they weren't then they would not sell for the crazy prices they do in exquisite. If it was just another auto patch #/99 then the big "RCs" would sell for much less as they do in other NFL licensed products compared to their rookies in those products.
+1. This is a strange argument to me. In baseball I consider the first card issued of a player to be an RC. Josh Hamilton has 99 cards. Those are his rookies to me. Not what beckett says that his 07 cards are. People can collect whatever they want and consider an RC whatever they want. We are all collectors and I like UD, Topps, & Panini. They are the big 3 to me. What I cannot stand is photoshopped cards without a jersey logo at all. I.E Prizm Baseball
Avid Collector who loves the thrill and chase of the Hobby
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#38

RE: UD continues to use the word, "ROOKIE..."
(07-02-2013, 10:43 PM)elite football cards Wrote: Book value is irrelevant to me as well. It is all based on sold listings on ebay. I subscribe to beckett football for the product previews

Disagree. UD is not going anywhere. They just signed an MLBPA deal and could get an NFL license back in the future. They have NHL and golf. They also make Ncaa basketball and Fleer Retro is a nice product as well.

+1. This is a strange argument to me. In baseball I consider the first card issued of a player to be an RC. Josh Hamilton has 99 cards. Those are his rookies to me. Not what beckett says that his 07 cards are. People can collect whatever they want and consider an RC whatever they want. We are all collectors and I like UD, Topps, & Panini. They are the big 3 to me. What I cannot stand is photoshopped cards without a jersey logo at all. I.E Prizm Baseball
dude........ Seriously... They got their NFL license taken, TAKEN away... They have a lawsuit against them from the NFL AND the NFLPA. They counterfeited Yu-Gi-Oh! cards (one of the biggest gaming cards of all times) by Konami...
They owe Peyton Manning money. They owe Tony Romo money. They owe Kareem Abdul-Jabbar money. They owe Drew Brees money. They owe Adrian Peterson money. They owe Dan Marino money.
And you still see them staying in business? I laugh and I laugh hard.
I would hope they pay everyone back and settle the issues, but I do not see it happening. The only way they get their NFL license back is if they show some effort in paying what they owe already........................................ And they aren't going to do that anytime soon.
(07-02-2013, 09:52 PM)chibearsboy Wrote: EXACTLY why i DONT collect RC's John......
1 - i dont TRUST them...
2 - who the he_l really knows a RC from a non RC...the manufacturers dont even know....what does this say?....yea,...thats what i thought
I flip them usually. Big Grin
elite football cards, read up on it man. Don't get sucked in by UD.
http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/nfl...2-million/
Oh yeah. Almost forgot... They owe Tim Tebow money!
How in the world do you owe Tebow money?!?!?! They going straight to H3LL for that one! Lol
Collecting Falcons, 3 Color or More Patches!
--- 2011 Rookies and Stars Materials Black Prime Longevity 053 out of 106 found. HELP!
[Image: StevenJacksonFalconsSmall.jpg]

http://s626.photobucket.com/user/JHnGA09/library
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#39

RE: UD continues to use the word, "ROOKIE..."
(07-02-2013, 01:43 PM)jheringa09 Wrote: I like variety... the NFL variety.
Memories??? Do you remember Tom Brady at Michigan? I doubt it... Do you remember Tony Romo? Undrafted... Arian Foster? Undrafted... Their "college" performance got them undrafted... So how many memorable moments can you remember of an NFL star in college?
If I say, Matt Forte, you'd probably say Bears before his college. How about Dan Marino? Dolphins... College? Gotta look it up more than likely. How about Kurt Warner? Many don't even know where Peyton Manning went to college without looking it up or seeing it on a UD card.
Can you imagine the level of awkwardness if you ever held a conversation with RGIII and his UD Rookie card?
"So Grif, how was your rookie year at Baylor?"
***and the crickets chirp***
Absolutely.

"Do you remember Tom Brady at Michigan?" - Was down 10 heading into the 4th quarter against top 10 Penn State after just throwing a pick 6 and led Michigan to a comeback win against one of the better defenses he faced in his career.

" Arian Foster? Undrafted..." Yup. Tennessee was driving to put the nail in the coffin in the 2006 Outback Bowl and Arian took a handoff off the right side, took a hit, fumbled and it was returned for a touchdown.

"If I say, Matt Forte," - 2,000 yard rusher for the Tulane Green Wave. If I remember correctly, he went for about 350 on either Houston or SMU.

"How about Dan Marino?" - Ranked #1 and had a 14 point lead on Penn State, only to see Penn State rattle off 41 unanswered points. That's what I think of Dan Marino when I see his name.

"Many don't even know where Peyton Manning went to college" - Now you're just being facetious. I remember him lighting up Kentucky for more than 500 yards passing. If I had to guess that record still stands as they haven't really had anybody since Tee Martin.

RGIII and Andrew Luck will be a Baylor Bear and a Stanford Cardinal for life, like it or not.

Your argument holds no water. Its an opinion and nothing more.
(07-02-2013, 04:05 PM)jheringa09 Wrote: People are slowly awakening to the fact that they aren't in NFL unis. Most people that are buying UD are player collectors, not NFL franchise specific collectors.
They continue to lose money, and continue to be sued not just by players but by companies such as Konami in the past.
And so they have to market their products as if they still have an NFL license. Given time, UD won't be around. Sad to say, but they won't.
To me, it's the same false advertising as say a card of JaMarcus Russell that states, "Pro Bowler" in big bold gold letters.
"To me" are the key words here. Nobody else really cares what a rookie is to you. I, like many others, consider first year cards of a player their rookie card, whether they are in a college uniform, spandex bike shorts, combine gear, NFL helmet and practice jersey with no pads and shorts on, NFL helmet with practice jersey WITH pads, NFL jersey with no helmet and no pads like Topps Rookie Premier, NFL game uniforms and any other combination you can come up with.

I would MUCH rather this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-UPPER-DECK-...53fabcca68

than this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-Panini-Thre...460371f486
Penn State Auto Collection

www.PSUAutoCollection.yolasite.com
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#40

RE: UD continues to use the word, "ROOKIE..."
(07-03-2013, 12:39 AM)jheringa09 Wrote: dude........ Seriously... They got their NFL license taken, TAKEN away... They have a lawsuit against them from the NFL AND the NFLPA. They counterfeited Yu-Gi-Oh! cards (one of the biggest gaming cards of all times) by Konami...
They owe Peyton Manning money. They owe Tony Romo money. They owe Kareem Abdul-Jabbar money. They owe Drew Brees money. They owe Adrian Peterson money. They owe Dan Marino money.
And you still see them staying in business? I laugh and I laugh hard.
I would hope they pay everyone back and settle the issues, but I do not see it happening. The only way they get their NFL license back is if they show some effort in paying what they owe already........................................ And they aren't going to do that anytime soon.

I flip them usually. Big Grin
elite football cards, read up on it man. Don't get sucked in by UD.
http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/nfl...2-million/
Oh yeah. Almost forgot... They owe Tim Tebow money!
How in the world do you owe Tebow money?!?!?! They going straight to H3LL for that one! Lol
I know the story on them. I did a paper on sports cards for one of my MBA classes. They made mistakes. They aren't sucking me in. I just feel like they have top notch designs and high quality cards.......


(07-03-2013, 05:42 AM)mkufta Wrote: Absolutely.

"Do you remember Tom Brady at Michigan?" - Was down 10 heading into the 4th quarter against top 10 Penn State after just throwing a pick 6 and led Michigan to a comeback win against one of the better defenses he faced in his career.

" Arian Foster? Undrafted..." Yup. Tennessee was driving to put the nail in the coffin in the 2006 Outback Bowl and Arian took a handoff off the right side, took a hit, fumbled and it was returned for a touchdown.

"If I say, Matt Forte," - 2,000 yard rusher for the Tulane Green Wave. If I remember correctly, he went for about 350 on either Houston or SMU.

"How about Dan Marino?" - Ranked #1 and had a 14 point lead on Penn State, only to see Penn State rattle off 41 unanswered points. That's what I think of Dan Marino when I see his name.

"Many don't even know where Peyton Manning went to college" - Now you're just being facetious. I remember him lighting up Kentucky for more than 500 yards passing. If I had to guess that record still stands as they haven't really had anybody since Tee Martin.

RGIII and Andrew Luck will be a Baylor Bear and a Stanford Cardinal for life, like it or not.

Your argument holds no water. Its an opinion and nothing more.

"To me" are the key words here. Nobody else really cares what a rookie is to you. I, like many others, consider first year cards of a player their rookie card, whether they are in a college uniform, spandex bike shorts, combine gear, NFL helmet and practice jersey with no pads and shorts on, NFL helmet with practice jersey WITH pads, NFL jersey with no helmet and no pads like Topps Rookie Premier, NFL game uniforms and any other combination you can come up with.

I would MUCH rather this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-UPPER-DECK-...53fabcca68

than this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-Panini-Thre...460371f486

Thank you. I like the card comparison and the reference to bike shorts ha. And noone really does care what a rookie is to you. Your one collector and just one opinion.

I would rather have this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-Exquisite-R...19dec5571d

than this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-NATIONAL-TR...35c6854e29

Both RG3 rookie cards to me but the exquisite design just looks so much nicer and superior
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