[mpc2876]

I have to agree to both sides in some ways. Mo is the best and most consistent all time, but Hoffman deserves a lot more credit than most give him. as far as just the saves stats alone I think Hoffman would have been the better pitcher had he played for the Yankees or had a better team than the Padres all those years. From the stats on MLB.com Mo has 608 saves in 681 chances while Hoffman has 601 saves in 677 chances. Even if you give Hoffman the 4 extra games Mo has, he still falls short by 3 saves. And that alone should show Hoffman was as good at saving games as Mo. I also think Hoffman and Lee Smith should be in the Hall in no less than their second year of eligibility, but we all know Smith is still waiting. I do wonder though if roles were reversed and Mo pitched in San Diego all those years and Hoffman had Mo's spot on the Yanks, how their stats would compare then. Plus who knows how many more saves Hoffman would have right now had he not missed almost an entire season. I guess what I am saying is that if you compare just saves, it would be hard to decide, but if you compare all the stats(just regular season) Mo is definitely better. But Hoffman does deserve a lot more talk about how good a reliever he was.

[jkiddlridnour]

I have to agree to both sides in some ways. Mo is the best and most consistent all time, but Hoffman deserves a lot more credit than most give him. as far as just the saves stats alone I think Hoffman would have been the better pitcher had he played for the Yankees or had a better team than the Padres all those years. From the stats on MLB.com Mo has 608 saves in 681 chances while Hoffman has 601 saves in 677 chances. Even if you give Hoffman the 4 extra games Mo has, he still falls short by 3 saves. And that alone should show Hoffman was as good at saving games as Mo. I also think Hoffman and Lee Smith should be in the Hall in no less than their second year of eligibility, but we all know Smith is still waiting. I do wonder though if roles were reversed and Mo pitched in San Diego all those years and Hoffman had Mo's spot on the Yanks, how their stats would compare then. Plus who knows how many more saves Hoffman would have right now had he not missed almost an entire season. I guess what I am saying is that if you compare just saves, it would be hard to decide, but if you compare all the stats(just regular season) Mo is definitely better. But Hoffman does deserve a lot more talk about how good a reliever he was.

+1

That's all I was trying to say. Mo is better but people need to give Hoffman the credit he deserves.

[jacobystealshome]

I have to agree to both sides in some ways. Mo is the best and most consistent all time, but Hoffman deserves a lot more credit than most give him. as far as just the saves stats alone I think Hoffman would have been the better pitcher had he played for the Yankees or had a better team than the Padres all those years. From the stats on MLB.com Mo has 608 saves in 681 chances while Hoffman has 601 saves in 677 chances. Even if you give Hoffman the 4 extra games Mo has, he still falls short by 3 saves. And that alone should show Hoffman was as good at saving games as Mo. I also think Hoffman and Lee Smith should be in the Hall in no less than their second year of eligibility, but we all know Smith is still waiting. I do wonder though if roles were reversed and Mo pitched in San Diego all those years and Hoffman had Mo's spot on the Yanks, how their stats would compare then. Plus who knows how many more saves Hoffman would have right now had he not missed almost an entire season. I guess what I am saying is that if you compare just saves, it would be hard to decide, but if you compare all the stats(just regular season) Mo is definitely better. But Hoffman does deserve a lot more talk about how good a reliever he was.

you arent accounting for park factors. hoffman spent the majority of career in the nl west, which is filled with pitcher's parks, and lesser offenses

mariano pitches in the al east, home of small parks like fenway and yankees stadum. and against the DH

it really isnt that close

[zaccheus85]

Interesting debate...I think Hoffman deserves to be mentioned, but in my mind doesn't come close to equaling Rivera's body of work, primarily because of the post-season stats. As has been pointed out, playing for the Brewers and Padres, the lack of post-season appearances is not necessarily Hoffman's fault. However, in the 9th, with a 1-0 lead, I am bringing Rivera in.

Who knew watching the 1998 World Series we were watching the 2 greatest closers to play the game?!?!

[jacobystealshome]

the whole thing is set up incorrectly

if you want to get more attention for hoffman, say he was underrated - i wouldnt disagree with that notion

you dont do that by comparing him to the best of all-time

that is what has hurt tim raines chances for the HOF. ignore rickey henderson, who played at the sanme time, and was the GOAT. if you just look at tim raines...hof'er. no doubt. maybe not first ballot, but hof'er

and so it goes with hoffman. you only hurt him by comparing him to rivera. take hoffman, by himself. dont set the argument up as him versus mariano

[mpc2876]

the whole thing is set up incorrectly

if you want to get more attention for hoffman, say he was underrated - i wouldnt disagree with that notion

you dont do that by comparing him to the best of all-time

that is what has hurt tim raines chances for the HOF. ignore rickey henderson, who played at the sanme time, and was the GOAT. if you just look at tim raines...hof'er. no doubt. maybe not first ballot, but hof'er

and so it goes with hoffman. you only hurt him by comparing him to rivera. take hoffman, by himself. dont set the argument up as him versus mariano

+1


I like that idea. Raines is a sure hall of famer. And if your talking ball parks, the NL in general is a pitchers league. But there is also a mental state that comes with have either the Padres lineup behind you or the Yankees. I think that gave Mo a bit of an edge.

[elberson]

Just going to throw this out there but.......image if Hoffman was playing on good padres team
(Or better teams) and (they won a lot more games) he would of had 800 to 900 saves easy.

[jacobystealshome]

Just going to throw this out there but.......image if Hoffman was playing on good padres team
(Or better teams) and (they won a lot more games) he would of had 800 to 900 saves easy.

or, conversely, could have had less save opportunities. how many games did the yanks lead so much that it wasnt a save situation available?

---

i cant believe i have spent the morning defending a yankee

i feel dirty

[joba the clark]

Postseason....plain and simple....plus he is doing it on the biggest stage in the game pitching for the Yankees at Yankee Stadium. Trevor Hoffman quietly racked up saves for mediocre teams with a couple postseason appearances. I would venture to say that if Mariano Rivera pitched for the Rangers or Astros he would not be considered the greatest ever.

[friedmana27]

im a yankees fan so i may be a little bias but theres a certain fear that hitters get when they vs mo. the fact that hitters go up against him not trying to get a hit but instead trying not to make a fool of themself just show that the presence is just as good as the stats

somebody may want to write that in a book ahahah