[folkertino]

I saw a beautiful Mikan patch card in a different thread and read a few days ago that Panini have acquired a Havlicek jersey to be included in upcoming products.

While I think it is awesome that we are now able to own 'a piece of basketball history', it did make me wonder.

Think of the scarcity of these historical jerseys and the value that they hold - take for example Mikan, Havlicek or West, Russell, Chamberlain... that sort of people. Isn't it absolutely insane that we are allowing companies to chop up these valuable jerseys into tiny pieces, destroying items that really should be protected and preserved?

Should we perhaps stick to the modern players for game used cards and keep these rare items intact for exclusive inclusion -say- on a redemption basis in high-end products, ie.: you win an entire jersey.

Let me clarify that of course I wouldn't say 'no' to a nice Mikan patch and also clarify that I'm not talking about jerseys from the last 20 years which are more widely available, just the old school stuff.

What do you guys think?

[will23c1982]

Firstly, I think Panini just acquired a Maravich jersey, not a Havlicek jersey (they presumably already had one of those, since they've been releasing some Havlicek jersey and patch cards in previous products since 2009-10).

I definitely see where you're coming from. However, there are already jerseys of those players in the Hall of Fame and other museums, e.g. individual state Hall of Fames, etc. Therefore, I think it's great that card companies like Panini enable the average fan to own a part of history.

I own jersey/patch cards of Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, etc. Those are some of my most cherished items. I could never afford a full game-used jersey of those players; I recently had my eye on Oscar Robertson's game used 1960 Olympics jersey but it sold for $150,000, which is way out of 99.99% of collectors' price range (myself included).

[taffster74]

I agree with Will - the individual halls/teams already have their own jerseys on display so that leaves the countless others still available for companies like panini to purchase them and do with them as they will. Heck even the colleges have plenty to spare - hence upper deck is able to put GU's in their products. Plus, panini acquiring the jerseys does give the new generation a chance to own a piece of Basketball history and it's pioneers. i was watching the halftime show yesterday and the guys were talking about how the true pioneers of the sport (Russell, Robertson, Chamberlain etc) are largely ignored by the sport simply because they were black. and this was Jalen Rose, Mike Wilbon and .... can't remember the other guys name. A lot of younger collector's hear names like Mikan, Chamberlain, Robertson, Reed and just think "Oh, that's some old guy who played way back in the dinosaur age" without really knowing who they were and what they did for our sport. That's one thing Upper Deck did with their Heroes inserts (at least the first three) - two of the first three sets highlighted true pioneers of the game (Jerry west 1991-92 UD series 2 and Wilt Chamberlain 1992-93 UD series 1). I really think Panini should do something like that in their lower end products - insert sets that highlight a true legend of the game from the pioneering days of the NBA.

[will23c1982]

While I agree with everything you said, it's worth bearing in mind that the NBA didn't begin with Russell, Chamberlain, Robertson, etc.

The pioneering era was before that, in the late 1940s (BBL) and early 1950s when the BBL and NBL merged to form the NBA. Stars from that era are the true forgotten stars of basketball. Joe Fulks, Andy Phillip, Bob Davies, Max Zaslofsky, etc. They deserve way more credit. Without them, there'd be no NBA.

Even casual fans have heard of Russell, Chamberlain, Robertson, etc.

How many know that Joe Fulks was the NBA's (well, strictly speaking, BBL's) first leading scorer and champion?

[taffster74]

I get what you're saying but when i said pioneers, I mean black pioneers. And you're actually talking about the BAA (Basketball Association of America) which was formed in 1946. Yes, those guys (Fulks, Davies, Zaslofsky, Wanzer, Phillip) were pioneers of pro basketball, but that was in an era where the only blacks playing professional basketball weren't in the big leagues due to segregation. Yes segregation in sports did start to soften after Shoeless Jo Jackson went from the Negro Leagues to the big leagues in baseball, but it didn't really start to become big until Hank Aaron went directly from a Negro College to the pro's. That then sparked interest in the other pro sports to look at selecting blacks/Negroes/African-Americans. Even during the 50's and 60's there were normally only 4 blacks on an NBA team and very few of them were "Stars". compare that to now when the NBA is dominated by Blacks/African-Americans and many younger collector's would assume that the league has always been that way.

[will23c1982]

Like I said, I agree with you. I just think its unfair to call Chamberlain, Russell, etc "true pioneers of the sport" when there were players who grafted away for low wages to make the NBA a success in the years prior to the arrival of Wilt etc. They were the true pioneers.

Now if you'd said "black pioneers"....

Needless to say, I'm being pedantic.

[antriarc]

Im sorry guy, im not the one to cry poor all the time but I rarely am able to buy hobby boxes let alone an entire jersey. A piece of history is about all I can afford!