[randall44]

It is the sellers responsibility to make sure the package arrives safely. If that means insuring the package then that is what he must do...
Legally the seller is responsible to prove that the package was delivered, and he is responsible for refunding or replacing it if he cannot prove it was delivered.
Delivery Confirmation is not legal proof that it has been delivered, it is just a convenient way of tracking a packages progress through the system or tracing one that has been misdirected.

Ray

Agree

[trayelfstrom]

It is the sellers responsibility to make sure the package arrives safely. If that means insuring the package then that is what he must do...
Legally the seller is responsible to prove that the package was delivered, and he is responsible for refunding or replacing it if he cannot prove it was delivered.
Delivery Confirmation is not legal proof that it has been delivered, it is just a convenient way of tracking a packages progress through the system or tracing one that has been misdirected.

Ray

So what you are telling me, is that if we went to court, Delivery Confirmation would not be considered a form of confirming delivery? I may have to sue USPS for misleading and misrepresenting their services on this one. Why would ANYONE pay to have confirmation of delivery if thats not what it is?

[ktcardshop]

So what you are telling me, is that if we went to court, Delivery Confirmation would not be considered a form of confirming delivery? I may have to sue USPS for misleading and misrepresenting their services on this one. Why would ANYONE pay to have confirmation of delivery if thats not what it is?

Let me correct that if I may...

Delivery confirmation says that a package with that label on it was delivered to that address while insurance confirms that it was handed to the person who signed for it. I've lived in apartments where anything larger than a letter was left on a table next to my mail box where anybody could pick it up.

Ray

[trayelfstrom]

Let me correct that if I may...

Delivery confirmation says that a package with that label on it was delivered to that address while insurance confirms that it was handed to the person who signed for it. I've lived in apartments where anything larger than a letter was left on a table next to my mail box where anybody could pick it up.

Ray

I guess that I personally that if you trade with someone, and you think there is a possibility that the mail could lose your end of the bargain, then you should ask the sender to include insurance. Both parties should use the same processes to ship unless otherwise agreed upon. Therefore, if I expect someone to insure, or pay extra for signature confirmation, then we will either agree to both do the same thing, or I will pay for you to insure my part. I suppose you could specify that you self insure, and therefore will cover any losses do to the mail system. But if you did this, and USPS told you it was delivered, would you simply hand over the $500 without an argument?

The biggest thing I think SnappyJoe needs to consider is this:

A relatively new trader begged him to send his cards earlier than he felt comfortable with. This is one of those flashing lights that goes off and says, "something ain't right." Perhaps the sender here sent an empty package to a neighbor, knowing that when it was delivered, it would register as Delivered? Or maybe he sent it to the wrong address? Who knows? I would try to figure out if he sent it to the right address.

As far as signature confirmation is concern, I have a ridiculous story concerning UPS. On three occasions I ordered cases from Atlanta Sports Cards. The first time they sent it without requiring a signature, and the box was left at my door step. (I live in an Apartment building) The next two times had signature confirmation added. The second shipment was signed for by a "Nick" and left at my door step. ????? Who is Nick? IDK! The third shipment was signed by Nick and left at another apartments doorstep. Luckily when that neighbor got home she knocked on my door to ask if this was my package. I had literally been waiting at my door for 8 hours for that package because it had 6 cases and I didn't want to miss it or have it left at the door step!

So I called UPS to file a complaint. After I gave them the tracking # and told them that the idiot driver never even knocked on my door, the girl on the phone said, "it says here that it was signed for by a Nick at Apt. xxxx." The driver actually logged that he delivered it to the wrong Apartment. And I guess he has some deadlines to make because apparently he uses the name Nick to sign for packages when people don't answer. Actually, I'm not even sure he bothers to knock at all.

The moral of the story is, there is absolutely no way to ensure that the man you mailed said item to actually ever receives it himself aside from putting it in his hands personally.

[bonds20001]

So what you are telling me, is that if we went to court, Delivery Confirmation would not be considered a form of confirming delivery? I may have to sue USPS for misleading and misrepresenting their services on this one. Why would ANYONE pay to have confirmation of delivery if thats not what it is?

I do not pay for DC..it is included in Paypal shipping..
Also, DC just states that the package was delivered to the address, not that anyone reached into the box and removed it..that is why sig confirmation is important as well..

---

I guess that I personally that if you trade with someone, and you think there is a possibility that the mail could lose your end of the bargain, then you should ask the sender to include insurance. Both parties should use the same processes to ship unless otherwise agreed upon. Therefore, if I expect someone to insure, or pay extra for signature confirmation, then we will either agree to both do the same thing, or I will pay for you to insure my part. I suppose you could specify that you self insure, and therefore will cover any losses do to the mail system. But if you did this, and USPS told you it was delivered, would you simply hand over the $500 without an argument?

The biggest thing I think SnappyJoe needs to consider is this:

A relatively new trader begged him to send his cards earlier than he felt comfortable with. This is one of those flashing lights that goes off and says, "something ain't right." Perhaps the sender here sent an empty package to a neighbor, knowing that when it was delivered, it would register as Delivered? Or maybe he sent it to the wrong address? Who knows? I would try to figure out if he sent it to the right address.

As far as signature confirmation is concern, I have a ridiculous story concerning UPS. On three occasions I ordered cases from Atlanta Sports Cards. The first time they sent it without requiring a signature, and the box was left at my door step. (I live in an Apartment building) The next two times had signature confirmation added. The second shipment was signed for by a "Nick" and left at my door step. ????? Who is Nick? IDK! The third shipment was signed by Nick and left at another apartments doorstep. Luckily when that neighbor got home she knocked on my door to ask if this was my package. I had literally been waiting at my door for 8 hours for that package because it had 6 cases and I didn't want to miss it or have it left at the door step!

So I called UPS to file a complaint. After I gave them the tracking # and told them that the idiot driver never even knocked on my door, the girl on the phone said, "it says here that it was signed for by a Nick at Apt. xxxx." The driver actually logged that he delivered it to the wrong Apartment. And I guess he has some deadlines to make because apparently he uses the name Nick to sign for packages when people don't answer. Actually, I'm not even sure he bothers to knock at all.

The moral of the story is, there is absolutely no way to ensure that the man you mailed said item to actually ever receives it himself aside from putting it in his hands personally.

And that delivery guy was fired?? Or promoted?? Every business is only as good as the employees, if you have someone doing this, then you have removed them, make an example of them and try to stop others from doing it..or else..the business is doomed..wait this is the USPS..accountability.....let me think...nevermind

[snappyjoe75]

well the moral of the this story is that i should have waited until they were delivered and in my hand vs sending mine first. like i said, this is a first for me and the people at the usps know me very well and on a first name basis. i just hope that it does show up and was put into someone else's mailbox and they have a change of heart to bring it to me. but i will not hold my breath.