[madmack29]

The main card was a 2011 Totally Certified jersey of Jim Thorpe #/100 that, last I checked, actively sold on ebay for $100+ (BV$ 100) and a 2011-12 Rick Nash Certified Gold auto #/25 (not listed due to scarcity). So I feel pretty comfortable with my assessment of what he received value wise.

Beckett "BV" is the standard when trading, and has been as far back as 1998 when I started trading. This seems to still be the accepted "value" for cards, so that is what I use - even outside of this site.

You are right about companies making more cards, but they are supposed to destroy the others after a certain amount of time. How would it look for Panini to give away 2 copies of the same card with the same serial number. They state on their site that they will stamp the card with the same serial number and destroy the one you send in for a replacement. SO you are correct that there may at one point be more than the stated run in existence, but they are not stamped and should not be in circulation.

Thanks,
Nathan

so, what cards did you trade away for the datsyuk?

And there is no such thing as a BV on cards, there is the beckett "guide" value but no Book Value as many people seem to think.

Beckett's have stated many times that their prices are to be used as a "guide" not as an accurate depiction of what a card is actually worth, a card is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it....., there are too many variables in play for ANYONE to be able to give an accurate value on a card.

And cards that are serial numbered to /25, /50, etc there are actually 50% more produced, to be used as replacement cards, "buy back" cards, etc...

[shezdoni]

The main card was a 2011 Totally Certified jersey of Jim Thorpe #/100 that, last I checked, actively sold on ebay for $100+ (BV$ 100) and a 2011-12 Rick Nash Certified Gold auto #/25 (not listed due to scarcity). So I feel pretty comfortable with my assessment of what he received value wise.

Beckett "BV" is the standard when trading, and has been as far back as 1998 when I started trading. This seems to still be the accepted "value" for cards, so that is what I use - even outside of this site.

You are right about companies making more cards, but they are supposed to destroy the others after a certain amount of time. How would it look for Panini to give away 2 copies of the same card with the same serial number. They state on their site that they will stamp the card with the same serial number and destroy the one you send in for a replacement. SO you are correct that there may at one point be more than the stated run in existence, but they are not stamped and should not be in circulation.

Thanks,
Nathan

Please remember, I am not trying to start an argument here about you feeling you were ripped off, you have every right to feel that way.

We are having a discussion about how far Beckett price guides are off, ok?

the last 9 Thorpes sold on the bay all sold for under $60 ( one was a little over at $61)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...true&rt=nc

Now Beckett claims that they have "real time pricing", now that should show you how off that statement is LOL

The last Nash certified gold auto sold for $14.19

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...true&rt=nc

The last Datsyuk certified gold auto sold for $26.69

So, yes, you do have a right to be Po'ed at the dealer, but you can also see how far off Beckett Values are, that is why when someone has the BV listed on a tag at a show, store, etc.... I ignore it, because 90% of the time it's lower, and then I work the deal accordingly, Fortunately the people I usually deal with, are easy to bargain with and try to keep their stock rotating all the time.

[madmack29]

Please remember, I am not trying to start an argument here about you feeling you were ripped off, you have every right to feel that way.

We are having a discussion about how far Beckett price guides are off, ok?

the last 9 Thorpes sold on the bay all sold for under $60 ( one was a little over at $61)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...true&rt=nc

Now Beckett claims that they have "real time pricing", now that should show you how off that statement is LOL

The last Nash certified gold auto sold for $14.19

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...true&rt=nc

The last Datsyuk certified gold auto sold for $26.69

So, yes, you do have a right to be Po'ed at the dealer, but you can also see how far off Beckett Values are, that is why when someone has the BV listed on a tag at a show, store, etc.... I ignore it, because 90% of the time it's lower, and then I work the deal accordingly, Fortunately the people I usually deal with, are easy to bargain with and try to keep their stock rotating all the time.

I agree - I wasn't trying to argue, if it seemed that way. Maybe I am still a little bitter about this is all.

I haven't looked at the Thorpe auctions since just after I pulled it, so it makes sense that it has gone down. Still, the range of BV would likely be low of $50 and hi of $100 or something like that. It might be nice if included with these numbers there was an actual realtime type price, but there must be way too much time involved with that many cards though.

What this boils down to is that I felt taken advantage of, based on the standard of trading that I am used to. As stated a couple of time before, I realize this is my own fault for not having access to the best available information - which is inherently flawed, but at least gives you something to work with. Otherwise, cards that I don't collect have no value to me other than what it cost me to obtain them.

Also, it is nice to have some polite criticism here - as well as some support for my position. It is better than my non card collecting friends saying that it is only cardboard and isn't worth anything.

Thanks for the feedback.

[alstott9adams]

Sorry to hear he is scum

[dan_dou_lea]

I think it was deceptive. You were screwed! I bought a lemieux at a trade show with a neat little $30 tag on it and it was placed in a $15 bin. When i got home and looked it up and found out in mint condition it was worth $12!! We all have to look for the tricks of the trade that some people use.

[bonnev659]

sorry to hear what happen

but there is always a bad apple at a big show... I learned the hard way, and lesson learned... needless to say i dont shop ever with that dealer anymore then again you have some great dealers who will wheel and deal with you. as they say a little bit of something is better then a lot of nothing... and they know they will deal with me again

[rjcj2017]

I think it was deceptive. You were screwed! I bought a lemieux at a trade show with a neat little $30 tag on it and it was placed in a $15 bin. When i got home and looked it up and found out in mint condition it was worth $12!! We all have to look for the tricks of the trade that some people use.

Two things ... the tag could have been outdated or from another card originally. It's been my experience, especially at card shows, that many dealers' bargain bins haven't been updated in months or even years.

Meaning, they open them up at shows, pack them up and put them away when the show's over, and open them up again at the next show weeks or months later ... values could go up or down in the meantime.

Plus, who knows, it may have just been placed in the bargain bin by accident by a buyer who was just plowing through boxes and not paying attention to where they put them back.

Secondly, and this is sort of how I feel in regard to the original poster, if you think you got a bargain without knowing the actual BV ahead of time, you're putting all your eggs in the dealer's basket as far as whether the tag was accurate or not.

Don't go by the tag if you don't know the value ... if you're that concerned about it, you can discreetly look at a Beckett at someone else's table and come back to it, if need be.

It just bothers me when people instantly assume someone is trying to screw them — I try to give everybody the benefit of the doubt, especially if I don't know them.

Especially with cards ... yeah, shady dealers might pull one over on someone here or there and come out ahead on X number of deals, but word travels fast in the collecting community and they'll do much, much better in the long run if they deal with people fairly and honestly.

I mean, if they screw over 10 people at one show, for example, that's 10 people that are going to tell their friends to stay away from the guy, and it goes exponentially from there.

OK, I'm off my soapbox now. LOL

[skyfire47]

if it was ok for you to assume the value of $100+ and you were wrong, why isn't it ok for the seller to have assumed wrongly as well? you only remember the value of your Thorpe from shortly after you pulled it. possibly the same situation with the seller?

not to say your situation doesn't suck (it does), but i don't see the seller doing anything deceptive or shady based on what you posted. he sets up shop, he has a price on his card, and you engaged him. to me, this would be the equivalent of you clicking an extraordinarily high Buy It Now on ebay without doing your homework and then blaming the seller for listing at an expensive price.

[thundercats12]

Sometimes its more about getting a card that you want than the dollar value. If I really want a card it doesnt hurt me to trade down to it. I re-read your inital post and it seems like by going on here you're dragging this guy through the mud unnecessarily. It was an agreed on trade at the show - done deal as soon as you "shake hands". He may have screwed you or may not have realized the values since he himself didnt have a beckett. Learn from your mistake this time and move on.

[stadium sports cards]

No excuses for the dealer as I don't know who the guy is or what he is thinking but I can tell you this from my own experieinces...

We get a card and generally price it based onthe latest Beckett. We always put High BV on it and go from there when discussing sales or trades. However, as you likely know, cards sit in boxes sometimes for a great deal of time and the BV's change. Sometimes up (which we generally notice based on demand) and more often down (which we don't notice as we are spending more time with the cards in demand).

So when I go to a show and take 4000-5000 cards, I am not fully aware of the current BV - just what is on the card which was the BV once upon a time. That is where the art of negotiations comes in for some - but for us, the deal is based on what cards are involved.

A $200 Raduov card is worth $5 in my store as the guy is a piece of crap and no one here collects Nashville. If you wanted to trade that $200 Radulov for the $30 Datsyuk, my answer would be "no thanks" as that $30 Datsyuk card is worth $30 in our store as we are 45 minutes from Detroit.

So I am sorry you got "screwed" or feel you got "screwed" because that is the last thing any dealer wants. We actually want good feelings as that promotes the hobby. I have lost out on deals just to better the hobby. Short term pain for long term gain.

Next time you go to that show, tell that dealer that "The Stadium" thinks he is an idiot. If he has been in the business for any length of time, he will know who I am am and know how to find me as I am easy to find if he wishes to discuss successful business practises with me.

This is the same type of guy as the card shop owner who searches packs so they can have the "hits" in their show case or sell them on-line. They are idiots and their businesses fail.

You pull a great card in my store and you are a customer for life - and if I am lucky, you will tell your friends. "PROMOTION" is what we want. Some of these idiots would rather pull out that $100 card and sell it on ebay for $35... Just imagine how many more purchases that $100 card would generate being pulled by a customer....