[ugameck]

I'm just glad that it was....hmmm, me....the UGA fan - that started said thread so many months ago.

And I've always just used Cam or C. as an example. Who really knows exactly what we're buying. I remember when that pic got posted at the RP with Ingram looking like he was wearing a fat man suit. That was terrible for (the vocal group of) collectors.

Regardless - unless I see him sign BOTH ways, I don't buy it. I see too many forgeries in my business- and the experts I've hired always point out pressure marks and direction of pen marks (up/down marks with letters - meaning its clear when someone starts a letter from he bottom or top - with more weight pressed down on the 'starting point')

[all day baby]

I stole these images from another thread. Two Cam autos from the same product... one sticker and one on-card. They are roughly the same size autographs.

On-card --


Sticker --


You cannot tell me these are from the same person.

[rjcj2017]

Guys, there is a difference between Upper Deck and Upper Deck Authenticated (UDA) ... look it up.

The COA on the cards is different from the COA that goes with UDA items as far as having a witness present.

Plus, all the stickers — other than the random Panini ones, and even those aren't consistent throughout Panini products — look like Topps stickers, which ARE ALL signed in front of a rep.

Topps does these signings with regional witnesses, again, if you believe what Topps says in the video.

Tell you what ... for those of you that have Cam sticker autos and think they're fake, I'll gladly buy all of them for $5 apiece. Every single one.

---

You did a lot of research but... There's still no explanation of why there are two versions of his auto

A perfect example of two different autos is Tyreke Evans from 2009-10 basketball ... started out as two lines on top of each other with a full first and last name, but in the later products was just one line with T. Evans ... and he signed it this way at a signing at a Carl's Jr. out here at the end of his rookie season.

That's not entirely a good comparison, though, because Tyreke's sig seemed to get more simple as time went on, whereas Cam had two different ones almost right away.

The whole thing is weird.

---

I stole these images from another thread. Two Cam autos from the same product... one sticker and one on-card. They are roughly the same size autographs.

On-card --


Sticker --


You cannot tell me these are from the same person.

Then how do you explain this one? It's got both styles in the same one:

http://bit.ly/Ho3IeH

[roostersclassics11]

My local LCS owner told me that he was a rep for autos for KSU that he is the one who delivers the cards and waits while he signs them but Im sure he doesnt have to wait for 10,000 but the so called rep could be anybody

[rjcj2017]

The thing you are missing is EXACTLY what nthoak mentioned -- the early stuff with stickers were actually his autographs (i.e. SAGE), so those autos SHOULD match the in-person signed football. It's the stuff released later in the year with stickers that are in different.

I appreciate all the work you have done, but honestly... I think it is a lost cause. The card companies are just going to say, "Yeah, that his is signature", even though it isn't.

This one is from Press Pass, one of the earliest products, right? :

http://bit.ly/Ho3IeH

Looks like a combination of the two.

[all day baby]

Then how do you explain this one? It's got both styles in the same one:

http://bit.ly/Ho3IeH

That is an on-card auto from way early 2011. The C crosses over the N. The N has one peak and is made in one motion.

The sticker autos have a period after the C. The N is not connected, being made in 3 strokes. And the C doesn't go on top of the N.

I'm not sure what your point is with this one.

[rjcj2017]

This is far from a factual statement. UDA even states on the back of their cards:
This card was signed in the presence of a company representative and/or sent from, and certified as to its authenticity by, player depicted.

I even have UD signature card that explicitly state the card was NOT signed in front of a rep.

Both these COAs are on Marino autograph cards, a former UDA client.

To go one step further, back in the day, Phil Hughes (NY Yankees pitcher) was frequently posting in the baseball forum showcasing cards before and after he signed them. He revealed that he was signing them without being in the presence of a UDA Rep. That he was sent a box with cards with stickers showing were to sign the cards.

Also, the Reps of these card companies are often nothing more than local dealers. It would be too costly to do a signing AND fly people all over the US, so if there is an able and willing dealer in the network nearby, UD would send the card dealer.

Upper Deck cards are different from Upper Deck Authenticated (UDA), which is just memorabilia, like jerseys, balls, bats., etc.

If you click on the Cam football link, http://bit.ly/wosSPu, and poke around on that page, you will see they have a five-step process that includes a witness for each piece:

http://store.upperdeck.com/store/faq/4?Args=

Again, as I've said about 100 times, that's IF you believe what they are saying.

But I think the Topps video and the UDA five step process — which is different from the cards — both seem fairly legit as far as the presence of witnesses.

---

That is an on-card auto from way early 2011. The C crosses over the N. The N has one peak and is made in one motion.

The sticker autos have a period after the C. The N is not connected, being made in 3 strokes. And the C doesn't go on top of the N.

I'm not sure what your point is with this one.

Look how the end of the sig loops back into the T ... just like the stickers. But it's on card.

---

Here's an even more clear explanation of the UDA process:

http://sports.upperdeck.com/memorabilia/...5step.aspx

Meaning, the football is legit.

Meaning, ANY sticker that has the loopy #2 with only one vertical line in the pound (number) sign is legit.

Meaning, I believe my SAGE auto is legit.

Meaning, again, I invite anyone who doesn't want their "fake" Cam autos to PM me and I will gladly send them five bucks for it. Heck, I'll even pay them for shipping and DC.

Really, I mean it. I'll take all of them.

[all day baby]

I woud not trust ANYTHING Upper Deck has to say about football anymore. You can feel free to believe whatever you want about your SAGE auto, but comparing it to what you think is a legitimate auto from UD is, at best, circumspect.

You claim it proves it is legit. I claim just the opposite, becaise it is UD.

[rjcj2017]

I woud not trust ANYTHING Upper Deck has to say about football anymore. You can feel free to believe whatever you want about your SAGE auto, but comparing it to what you think is a legitimate auto from UD is, at best, circumspect.

You claim it proves it is legit. I claim just the opposite, becaise it is UD.

Fair enough, very much so, if you factor in UD's past problems, but I would have to think that even they would not mess with the one good thing they have left — UDA, with memorabilia pieces from LeBron, Tiger, Jordan, etc. ...

Because if it ever came out that even those were iffy/suspect, I would think it would be the final nail in their coffin.

Either way, as long as the auto I have is legit, I'm not going to worry about anyone else's anymore.

Besides, no one has disputed my claim about SAGE autos ... so, using your logic, wouldn't it make this specific UD item seem more legit if compared to a SAGE auto that everyone seems to concede is the real thing?

Believe what you want, I can't do anything other than make the effort I already have.

I just haven't seen one person on past or present threads present more evidence to the contrary than I have to help other collectors feel more secure about their Cams.