[giantfan270]

Some of this I agree with and some I do not. I find it hard to believe in any neighborhood its impossible to get a job at a mcdonalds, gas station, library, after school program, etc. Kids are simply lazy. If my opinion is off then how did the survive the first 17 years of his life? Someone had to heave been taking pretty good care of him. If he was in school then things shouldn't be has bad as your are painting. If the parents can afford to pay for his schooling Im sure he has some Ramen noodles he could eat. He simply wanted the extra cash so he went to the easiest route to make extra cash. I can speak from personal experience. I too have a 17 brother who makes stupid choices. My parents dont have money and they werent exactly the best parents in the world. The difference is I chose to not deal dope for extra cash. I chose to cut grass. I used to make $175 a week when I was 17 cutting grass legally. I paid for my own lawnmower and my own gas. If you have the will power you can do anything in this world regardless where you were brought up. I realize some places are tougher than others and maybe I cant exactly relate to these places however I do know if you want to better your life you always have a choice.

Your assuming a lot of things. I know some kids that made it, that never had one bit of help from their parents. They are resilient and a lot of kids that grow up that way are determined to make it better for their kids. Good people in bad situations. Not all, but a lot of em. Your right, some kids make conscience bad decisions, but that kid wouldn't still be in school at 17. There are kids in my kids school who only get to eat, when they are at school. The teachers worry sick about them because they see how depressed the kids get on Fridays because they wont eat again until school on Monday. During the summers, they hardly eat at all. These kids hate when school is out, because at home they have nothing. Not even parents that care. They didn't ask to be in that situation. They have no choice. I realize it's almost impossible for most folks to understand, but I've seen some real good kids have to do things they didn't want to do, just to live. Sad that it happens in America, but it's the reality of inner city youth. If you give everyone of those kids a real opportunity to make their own way in this world, 95% of them would succeed without breaking the law.

[englandhousehold]

I completely agree with you. I've been to school with those kids too growing up in Chicago. It's sad to see how some things are for some kids. Having to wait 3 days to eat again is terrible and I help kids like that as much as I can at my daughter's school now that I can do something about it.

Your assuming a lot of things. I know some kids that made it, that never had one bit of help from their parents. They are resilient and a lot of kids that grow up that way are determined to make it better for their kids. Good people in bad situations. Not all, but a lot of em. Your right, some kids make conscience bad decisions, but that kid wouldn't still be in school at 17. There are kids in my kids school who only get to eat, when they are at school. The teachers worry sick about them because they see how depressed the kids get on Fridays because they wont eat again until school on Monday. During the summers, they hardly eat at all. These kids hate when school is out, because at home they have nothing. Not even parents that care. They didn't ask to be in that situation. They have no choice. I realize it's almost impossible for most folks to understand, but I've seen some real good kids have to do things they didn't want to do, just to live. Sad that it happens in America, but it's the reality of inner city youth. If you give everyone of those kids a real opportunity to make their own way in this world, 95% of them would succeed without breaking the law.

[shezdoni]

Your assuming a lot of things. I know some kids that made it, that never had one bit of help from their parents. They are resilient and a lot of kids that grow up that way are determined to make it better for their kids. Good people in bad situations. Not all, but a lot of em. Your right, some kids make conscience bad decisions, but that kid wouldn't still be in school at 17. There are kids in my kids school who only get to eat, when they are at school. The teachers worry sick about them because they see how depressed the kids get on Fridays because they wont eat again until school on Monday. During the summers, they hardly eat at all. These kids hate when school is out, because at home they have nothing. Not even parents that care. They didn't ask to be in that situation. They have no choice. I realize it's almost impossible for most folks to understand, but I've seen some real good kids have to do things they didn't want to do, just to live. Sad that it happens in America, but it's the reality of inner city youth. If you give everyone of those kids a real opportunity to make their own way in this world, 95% of them would succeed without breaking the law.

How many of these kids have you given jobs to at your family car dealerships?

[giantfan270]

How many of these kids have you given jobs to at your family car dealerships?

There have been a few. One guy I can think of started detailing cars and is now a shop foreman. He went to diesel mechanics school and makes about $75,000 a year now. Our dealerships are in the suburbs though. Most of the problem is inner city.

[soccerscrub]

This is a very tough topic to discuss. However, I would like to point out that, breaking the law, no matter how or why, is still breaking the law. This is a problem in our society. Everyone has this sense of entitlement. We don't deserve anything! Laws are there to protect people. Whether or not pot should be legal is a separate issue. As it stands right now, it is illegal. As far as punishment, if you commit a crime, you should always expect to get the heaviest fine/punishment allowable and if you get anything less, count it a blessing.

Anyone can make excuses as to why they break a law, but at the end of the day, that's all it is, an excuse. It is not the responsibility of the government to take care of every person in a country. I believe that that responsibility should be for the communities. There are plenty of people that are in bad situations, but that is still no reason to break the law.

As far as the racial issue, I don't know what to say... It's always going to be around and the more I think we try to make laws to prevent it, the worst off it's going to be. I don't know what people are thinking nowadays when they think that the color of someone's skin has anything to do with their character or anything else about that person. It is such a narrow minded thing...

just my $.02

[ugameck]

Awesome, guys. I truly love the debate, however:

I don't think i mentioned race in this...

however, where this kid lived - there aren't any yards to be mowed - he lived in a $100 a week hotel with mom and siblings - and he was eating free and reduced lunches during the week. weekends? thats when he was on his own. i guess mom may have worked, but it was more a cash only job and only per "john", and whatever commission she had to pay out.

its funny, in a horrible horrible ironic way - i got a message from his MOM on thursday. "oh, its sooo important you call me about Dev.... I need to know what's happenin to my son!"

Yeah, he's only been in jail for 4 months now - and now it sooooo important....I didn't call her back. I will as a courtesy, but she can wait. She's waited 4 months to give a crap.

guys, if you are on this message board, you don't know what its like to be that kid - white, black, hispanic, asian.... Like I said - I never mentioned what race/nationality this kid was.

Again - as my client said "i did wrong, and i'm paying for it" - what he did was wrong - illegal. my topic was about fairness. jerome simpson didn't even get arrested.

[murrylove]

AS for the point of your topic, it is a HUGE joke how the normal people are treated compared to stars. I was a problem child, and got arrested for possesion and intent to distribute shrooms. I spent a year in Nassau County Jail in East Meadow, NY, on Long Island. I've completely changed and turned my life around, and been on the straight and narrow for the last 15 years now. I never plan on going back to how I used to be. A few blocks from my house lived and still sometimes lives Lindsay Lohan. She's never spent real time in jail, after multiple arrests, probation violations, failed drug programs and drug tests It's a shame how the justice system is supposed to be fair and impartial, unless your rich and famous.

[Marinoisking]

While I appreciate how difficult your job is, and I do know how difficult it can be, I disagree with your philosophy and feelings on this.

There are a lot of other things he could have been doing to earn the money then selling pot, I know that there are at least a hundred elderly citizens in each town, that need help with doing stuff around their house, like mowing the lawn, raking leaves, cleaning gutters, etc..., that would have paid a lot more than a measly $10 to get it done, however your client took the easy way out he didn't want to do any thing that required a little strength and labor or time....

Sure this may be the first time he got caught, but how many times before this, has he done it and sold larger amounts?, that's something I am sure your client isn't going to tell you the truth about it, who in their right mine would admit to doing it.

As far as the school thing goes, how do you know that he wasn't taking it and selling it there, or how many classes he skipped a week, etc.., , there are a lot of unknowns that you have to take into consideration.

As for the Judge giving him a yr, you already know how difficult your job is, being a judge has to be 100 times worse, I'm sure they don't enjoy putting children in cages, with much older guy's and gals that will just make their life even worse, but they have a job to do, their job is to dole out the punishment, just like your job is to try and get them a leaner punishment, your both just doing your jobs.

As far as the criminal justice system, the United States, probably has the leanest and easiest system to do time in, a lot of other countries, you work your A** off all day long, you get very little food, no 3 meals a day, no cable T.V to watch, no yard time, mouth off to a guard, and you get the crap knocked out of you, etc.....

Some countries are even stricter, commit a murder, yea, your going to get a "fair" trial, and 3 days later , your head comes off publicly, steal something, again a "fair" trial, and 3 days later your hand comes off publicly, rape a woman, same punishment as murder, sleep with someone elses wife, heck you don't get no trial, your neighbors and her hubby can take you out and stone you to death, same thing for the wife.

When the U.S gets it's head out of it's donkey, and make jails someplace where you never, ever want to go or return too, even for the "hardened" career prisoners, then a lot of things would change in this country.

Sorry man....I think your Philosophy is totally backwards.
Especially on this part
"When the U.S gets it's head out of it's donkey, and make jails someplace where you never, ever want to go or return too, even for the "hardened" career prisoners, then a lot of things would change in this country".
There are already SEVERAL Countries in the world that wont expedite someone to America because they feel our prison system is inhumane.

What you have to realize is that no matter what there is going to be crime.
We have tried the "deterrent" almost our entire existence as a country and it just dosent work.
Humans have always sought after and used intoxicants and always will.
The best way to deal with it is to accept that it cant be stopped...nor should it be stopped since we have the right to do that (although it has been unjustly taken away). Harm reduction policies have shown insane success in countries that have learned and put such a plan into place...as I feel America will as we grow and mature as a country.

We need a complete revolution of the judicial and penal systems.
We should be rehabilitating criminals and not just putting them in a place were all they do is learn new crime.
It just starts a vicious cycle.It gets to the point that all they know is crime,and their children will see that,and that will make them more susceptible to becoming a criminal.We need to break the cycle of this by making our "correctional" facilities actually work towards correcting people.

After we learn to do this and learn were to use our resources (not chasing down people for drugs) and actually focusing on stopping VIOLENT crimes then we as a country will all be better off in all aspects...Socially,Economically,and Politically.

As for the Child having other things to do....If he lives in a broken home and is in that environment what else does he know?
He probably dosent know any elderly people that he could go help.....he is in SCHOOL and under 18 so its unlikely he could find a job that pays an hourly wage.
It seems to me he is a product of the vicious cycle I mentioned earlier.
If you want to make this a better country then your first priority should be to want policies that HELP people...not Hurt,Mame,Torture or leave people hopeless.

[spazmatastic]

guys, if you are on this message board, you don't know what its like to be that kid - white, black, hispanic, asian....

I ENTIRELY DISAGREE with this sentence!
I didn't have a nice and cozy life as a teen either and it was even worse at times when I went out on my own. I am only on Beckett now b/c I fought through it all and managed to get a job with a company that sees how reliable and important I am to their everyday functions AND b/c I have some family that helped me get to that better place and stay there. I am the oldest of three and as a teenager, I had to take care of my sister and brother b/c my Mom and stepdad were always working just to pay the bills. I still ended up dealing/doing drugs just to have fun and to have some extra cash to do the normal high school things, like going to a HS football game or dance or taking a girl out on a date. I am a white male AND I had friends of other races/sexes that had it better than me.
I stuck with it and graduated HS just b/c I didn't want to disappoint my extended family (even though they wouldn't have been surprised if I didn't graduate)! Even though my sister and brother didn't graduate HS (they didn't drop out, just not enough credits to get the diploma), I inspired them enough afterwards that they strived to do better. My sister has now been in the Navy for over 6 years and is pretty high up in the Navy as a weather forecaster. My brother is a trucker, something I would never attempt to do mostly b/c of the severe difficulty of manuevering such a large vehicle in a major city.
Back to my struggles, I got married at 19 (not b/c of a pregnancy or anything like that) but apparently out of stupidity. We split after about 2 years and I moved into the worst dump of a trailer park I've ever seen. Even with a job AND selling a 1/2 oz. to 1 oz. of weed per week on the side, I couldn't afford to stay there for much more than a year. I ended up homeless and stealing food from gas stations to feed myself. I managed to get my real Dad's parents to take me in for a few months until I got the job I have now. BTW, my ex-wife's parents are quite wealthy and helped us out a lot, but she still ended up in worse situations than I did.
I'm just saying that circumstances can make ANYONE do ANYTHING that they feel they need to do to survive. I never thought I would have to steal food from a gas station to keep from starving. The police let me go free after hauling me in to the PD, but I still had to deal with the charges. I dealt with that and did complete what the judge ordered me to do, but I shouldn't have been in that situation in the 1st place.

[ugameck]

I ENTIRELY DISAGREE with this sentence!
I didn't have a nice and cozy life as a teen either and it was even worse at times when I went out on my own. I am only on Beckett now b/c I fought through it all and managed to get a job with a company that sees how reliable and important I am to their everyday functions AND b/c I have some family that helped me get to that better place and stay there. I am the oldest of three and as a teenager, I had to take care of my sister and brother b/c my Mom and stepdad were always working just to pay the bills. I still ended up dealing/doing drugs just to have fun and to have some extra cash to do the normal high school things, like going to a HS football game or dance or taking a girl out on a date. I am a white male AND I had friends of other races/sexes that had it better than me.
I stuck with it and graduated HS just b/c I didn't want to disappoint my extended family (even though they wouldn't have been surprised if I didn't graduate)! Even though my sister and brother didn't graduate HS (they didn't drop out, just not enough credits to get the diploma), I inspired them enough afterwards that they strived to do better. My sister has now been in the Navy for over 6 years and is pretty high up in the Navy as a weather forecaster. My brother is a trucker, something I would never attempt to do mostly b/c of the severe difficulty of manuevering such a large vehicle in a major city.
Back to my struggles, I got married at 19 (not b/c of a pregnancy or anything like that) but apparently out of stupidity. We split after about 2 years and I moved into the worst dump of a trailer park I've ever seen. Even with a job AND selling a 1/2 oz. to 1 oz. of weed per week on the side, I couldn't afford to stay there for much more than a year. I ended up homeless and stealing food from gas stations to feed myself. I managed to get my real Dad's parents to take me in for a few months until I got the job I have now. BTW, my ex-wife's parents are quite wealthy and helped us out a lot, but she still ended up in worse situations than I did.
I'm just saying that circumstances can make ANYONE do ANYTHING that they feel they need to do to survive. I never thought I would have to steal food from a gas station to keep from starving. The police let me go free after hauling me in to the PD, but I still had to deal with the charges. I dealt with that and did complete what the judge ordered me to do, but I shouldn't have been in that situation in the 1st place.

That is awesome. I take my statement back.