Thrill 22 Wrote:jacksoncoupage Wrote:I am all for reshaping this growing thread. I am still unsure about dropping the error part right now. One collector's error question may lead to variation news for us all. Creating a separate thread for unlisted errors would be a way to go though. I'm hesitant because it may become a pain moving info back and forth from posts between the two topics. The error vs. variation issue seems sensitive enough that not every collector has such a refined POV on it. Plus, it's much easier for me to make small "asides" to you guys about a card I find that may be specific to your players and not a set-spanning variation, here in this thread.
If you guys don't mind that stuff and feel that it will help this thread then I 'm cool with reformatting it those are just my hesitations. Any specific ideas for new titles?
Error vs. Variation. I think that a looser definition is best. Creating a too-linear definition will confuse many who are new to the game. A lot of these minute differences can be confusing enough but also having to figure out the guidelines and details on what is an "acceptable" variation and isn't seems tough. As it stands our first page is a growing list of confirmed variations that affect a large portion of a set (1982 Topps Blackless) or affects a set that contains several of the BMB-collected players (1994 UD Choice White letters for example-a subset that has early cards of Jeter, Arod, Johnny Damon and Derek Lee).
I believe that anything that comes in two (or more) different ways, but was not specifically intended to should be labeled a variation. A prime example would be the 1978 Topps Dick Williams card. There are 4 different types of "boxing" around his first name on front. I call this an error as well as a variation. I guarantee that people at Topps did not want even one version to be released with a box drawn around that specific part of his name. Yet it can be found with 4 different versions. Often times, I find myself cataloging a card as an "error-variation" because it was clearly unintended by the company but exists in multiple varieties.
As for the 88 Donruss, I am doubtful every card comes in two types as well. I'd really like to look into further though. All the "gospel" on the subject seems to claim that only two cards weren't affected, but like you, I have serious doubts about this. I may have to break a couple soon.
EDIT:
I almost forgot. What do you think specifically should be addressed in the FAQ?
I've been away from this thread for a while. I don't know if anyone missed me, but it looks like I've got a lot of catching up to do.
In the end, I don't really care if this is the Variation thread or the Error/Variation thread. I guess I just don't want to see it dominated by "Hey, this John Littlefield looks backward" messages, if you know what I mean. I haven't given this a lot of thought, but I would probably consider a variation anything that makes you go look for your own doubles to see if something similar occurred on your player's cards. A white letter/**/INC/border/cropping/airbrushing of any player in any set would make us go look at our own cards. A reversed negative or misspelling on Player X will not make me look at my Will Clark cards to see if they spelled it "Clrak" or made him into a right-handed first baseman. Make sense?
As for 1988 Donruss, I am quite confident that the Will Clark base card does NOT have a border variation. I bought a sealed set at a show in the summer of 06, only for the Will Clark border variations. The DK had one, the base card did not. Well, I guess it's possible that the 30 or so doubles I had at home were all the factory variation, but I'd bet against it.
As for the FAQ...I don't really know. What's most important is the list in the first message, I think. I'll give it some thought, though.
Well the problem with eliminating errors is the fact some people may think a widespread variations was actually an error. This would have kept me from posting a few of these myself. I'm not too sure we should say don't post errors here. The point of this thread is to filter out errors from widespread variations. People post a potential variation and we all take a look to see if its valid or not. If it is, we add it to the OP, if not, we move on! I don't think we should tell people to limit what they post because we may miss out on a few gems!!