[rippinwax]

Sorry everyone, but as basketball collectors we win first prize as Guys Who Got Screwed The Worst by Panini this year.

A grand total of five products, no rookie cards, just one retail set.

Yep, we win. Or lose.

Well to be honest I did not think it was possible, but they make UD look like they are stars....then again I forgot what I got in all my SPGU breaks and well...................they both suck extremely bad. So fed up, I am actually going to go buy a nice Classic car and spend my money on something that when it opens up it WILL make me happy....lol. May open up some Cup this year, but as of yesterday I am done cracking any products in any sport. They should be ashamed of what they are producing.

[adamslogik]

Personally, I like the designs of elite. I think that the problem is THE COLLECTORS. Everyone is so hung up on needing fantastic patches and autographs that they've gotten away from what my opinion is the most important part of the Hobby... collecting cards that LOOK great.

In my humble opinion, I love that Panini have put alot of thought and effort into their GORGEOUS insert sets. I really miss collecting beautiful insert cards that won't cost me an arm and a leg.

Elite is an awesome product, because not only do they deliver some hits, but just about EVERY pack has a nice looking insert or parallel.

Alot better than opening packs of Black Diamond, SPA or Series 1, Half of the packs have nothing but base. Even when they have inserts, they are plain and ugly (Hockey Heroes, All World team, essentials, etc....)

The problem is that COLLECTORS drive the value of these inserts down, because without an Auto or Patch, no one is willing to pay anything more than $0.99 on ebay for them.

It sickens me that the hobby has gotten to this point, aesthetic appeal counts for ZERO anymore. All that counts are Autos and Patches.

For shame...

[nemesis77777]

Personally, I like the designs of elite. I think that the problem is THE COLLECTORS. Everyone is so hung up on needing fantastic patches and autographs that they've gotten away from what my opinion is the most important part of the Hobby... collecting cards that LOOK great.

In my humble opinion, I love that Panini have put alot of thought and effort into their GORGEOUS insert sets. I really miss collecting beautiful insert cards that won't cost me an arm and a leg.

Elite is an awesome product, because not only do they deliver some hits, but just about EVERY pack has a nice looking insert or parallel.

Alot better than opening packs of Black Diamond, SPA or Series 1, Half of the packs have nothing but base. Even when they have inserts, they are plain and ugly (Hockey Heroes, All World team, essentials, etc....)

The problem is that COLLECTORS drive the value of these inserts down, because without an Auto or Patch, no one is willing to pay anything more than $0.99 on ebay for them.

It sickens me that the hobby has gotten to this point, aesthetic appeal counts for ZERO anymore. All that counts are Autos and Patches.

For shame...

+1,000,000...

Hear hear...

[arock99]

i'll take a box of elite at that price over the price of an SP Game used

Having said that I prefer Certified over ELite and its 20 bucks cheaper

[705-janveaux]

It sickens me that the hobby has gotten to this point, aesthetic appeal counts for ZERO anymore. All that counts are Autos and Patches.

For shame...

well before patches and auto's, insets were the thing collectors
wanted along with rc's. so in my eyes the hobby hasnt changed
its only gained a few more teirs of value and desire for those
that can afford it.
buying a box of elite wont yeiled constant amazing hits like the cup
or other highend products, however they are a nice looking card
is you cant afford top tier products .......like me

[azicet]

Personally, I like the designs of elite. I think that the problem is THE COLLECTORS. Everyone is so hung up on needing fantastic patches and autographs that they've gotten away from what my opinion is the most important part of the Hobby... collecting cards that LOOK great.

In my humble opinion, I love that Panini have put alot of thought and effort into their GORGEOUS insert sets. I really miss collecting beautiful insert cards that won't cost me an arm and a leg.

Elite is an awesome product, because not only do they deliver some hits, but just about EVERY pack has a nice looking insert or parallel.

Alot better than opening packs of Black Diamond, SPA or Series 1, Half of the packs have nothing but base. Even when they have inserts, they are plain and ugly (Hockey Heroes, All World team, essentials, etc....)

The problem is that COLLECTORS drive the value of these inserts down, because without an Auto or Patch, no one is willing to pay anything more than $0.99 on ebay for them.

It sickens me that the hobby has gotten to this point, aesthetic appeal counts for ZERO anymore. All that counts are Autos and Patches.

For shame...

I wouldn't blame the collectors. They demanded something better than what was currently being made, which I don't have a problem with. If we didn't, companies would probably still be making 100,000's of cards & hiding production runs as if they were the combinations to the safes in Fort Knox.

The cards today look nicer & have more value to them based on the autographs, jerseys & serial numbering.

If ANYONE is to blame, it's the card companies themselves for 2 main reasons.

1. There's really no need to still have as many products as they do. At this point, there's no difference between an "Artifacts" serially numbered rookie vs. a "Trilogy" serially numbered rookie, or a "Certified" rookie vs. a "Limited" one. The brands are too similar which still gives us a glut of products that have diluted pricing.

2. The player selection is AWFUL. Each year there are only 10 rookies or less who make an impact & have cards with value. The other 200 or so throughout the season via callups, injury replacements, waiver wire pickups, etc., do not. If you want to include every rookie in a set, fine. Do it for OPC, Score, Victory or any of the lower end sets. Do NOT do it for a higher end product. There's no reason a player who played 1 game at the end of the season should have a serially numbered rookie card in a product like SP Game Used, (looking at YOU Shane Sims of the NY Islanders)..

The same goes for teams. Sorry Minnesota Wild fans, but your rookies are like poison. Card companies should know pulling autographed rookies of players like Matt Foy or Justin Falk are only going to please die-hard Minnesota Wild fans. The other 99.999999999% of hockey card collectors are going to be upset. Maybe it's me but I think adding an extra 500 autographed cards of Tavares or Hall & subtracting the Foy and Falk cards will not hurt the values. If anything, it'll enhance the values of the cards in general by not having "bad" rookies in them. Yes, if the Wild ever has a top 5 pick that makes the team, of course add him to the set. But for the most part, "middling" rookies, even mid-to-late 1st rounders, should not have super-high-end cards made.

[The-Joker]

re: the rookie selection - Agreed. I pulled a rookie out of Artifacts one year that was a Black Auto parallel /5.... I was so happy... until I saw it was Kris Chucko. Had to work just to get $15 for it. If the selection were smaller maybe my chances of pulling someone even somewhat known would have increased.

And no, this isn't a whining complaint over my bad luck and that I'm not pulling Hall and RNH from every box.I'm simply in agreement with the idea that they should minimize the amount of quasi-worthless rookies in $100+ boxes.

And it isn't like no one has ever explicitly separated rookies by their caliber. Ice did it with the tiers. Just do the same thing, only take those names considered "lower-tier" and put them in a lower-end box.

My 2 cents.

[rippinwax]

Actually Adamslogik, I disagree with your statement about everyone expecting huge hits or patches in every box . All I expect is a decent hit in a case, now those are hard to come by. The last product I opened that I did not feel violated was Dominion. Even UD hobby this year seemed sparse for inserts etc. I think they are putting more in the tins and blasters to entice new people into the hobby. All I am saying when you crack a 12 box case or CR and your hit is a Joe Colborne Silhouetts Patch card, then I think that is stretch to what it used to be before. I think with trying my hardest and a lot of hard work I only lost $1200 on those 12 boxes. Thus this is why I am fed up and still looking for my 67 Chevelle. I agre also that the products are so watrered down, that the one shop I go to she calls me Mr. Owl when i am cracking wax in her store. That's because she says "who", "who", "who" watch8ing me open my boxes.

[swjrp10]

you want my opinion on what's killing values for the hobby (you probably dont want it, but I'm givin it to you anyway!), the INTERNET! ...now bare with me while I explain my case...

*Back in the day prior to the internet, if there was a single that you really really wanted, how did you get it? you either bought it from your LCS at full BV or traded for it with someone you knew. Your sources for where you could find said card were limited, so you had little choice to pay close/full BV for a card you wanted.

*with the internet, now you have 1000s of people that have the same card, all of whom are willing to sell it. It's easier than ever to find any card you want! If you wanted a card of X player /50 back in the day, you had to pray you either pulled it or the LCS had it. Now 49 of the 50 can be found on an auction site! This forces sellers to have to one-up each other price wise in order to sell their card. If seller A wants 50 for a card, the only way I can guarntee I sell mine is to sell mine for 45, and so on and so on (I call it the Walmart-vs-Main St. Effect!).

*These price wars/ease of access essentially kill "book value." Tons of people we all know won't even buy at BV because "it's cheaper on ebay" (no that's not a slam at anyone, it's being smart. why should I pay full price when ebay has it for half).

Does over production/similar products play a part, of course, but at the end of the day, its simple economics...supply vs demand, and the internet has made the supply reach gargantuan proportions!

Just my 2 cents!

[adamslogik]

you want my opinion on what's killing values for the hobby (you probably dont want it, but I'm givin it to you anyway!), the INTERNET! ...now bare with me while I explain my case...

*Back in the day prior to the internet, if there was a single that you really really wanted, how did you get it? you either bought it from your LCS at full BV or traded for it with someone you knew. Your sources for where you could find said card were limited, so you had little choice to pay close/full BV for a card you wanted.

*with the internet, now you have 1000s of people that have the same card, all of whom are willing to sell it. It's easier than ever to find any card you want! If you wanted a card of X player /50 back in the day, you had to pray you either pulled it or the LCS had it. Now 49 of the 50 can be found on an auction site! This forces sellers to have to one-up each other price wise in order to sell their card. If seller A wants 50 for a card, the only way I can guarntee I sell mine is to sell mine for 45, and so on and so on (I call it the Walmart-vs-Main St. Effect!).

*These price wars/ease of access essentially kill "book value." Tons of people we all know won't even buy at BV because "it's cheaper on ebay" (no that's not a slam at anyone, it's being smart. why should I pay full price when ebay has it for half).

Does over production/similar products play a part, of course, but at the end of the day, its simple economics...supply vs demand, and the internet has made the supply reach gargantuan proportions!

Just my 2 cents!

I totally agree, there are WAY too many people "ahem"... who are buying CASES of product that they can't afford, so they have to sell everything immediately for whatever they can get from it to pay their bills.

That DESPERATION to get their money back means they will take whatever they can get from the cards, and this drives the value down.

Ebay is like a pawn shop, you NEVER get what you should for your cards, because everyone on it is looking to get the best deal they can, more often than not, so that when they decide to RESELL, they can try to turn a profit. THAT is the number one problem with this hobby, too many people are in it to turn a profit instead of for the love of the hobby.

I only bust what I can afford to open, so I don't have to sell off my hits to recoup my losses, because when I decide to spend money on cards, it's always money I know I can afford to spend.