[xstreaminsanity]

I never really liked LeBron until he went to the Heat, because people were calling him a sellout and other dumb things. This is a professional sport...don't people want to win? And, why am I posting on the basketball boards?

lol. I don't know, go away. Nah, welcome to the best boards Beckett has to offer.

[lgb cards]

No sorry you are dead wrong on that! LeBron has NO chance to be greater than MJ in accolades. Do you realize what exactly is on Michaels resume!? Try 6-0 in the Finals, 6 Finals MVP's, 5 Regular Season MVP's, Ten Scoring Titles (10!!!!!!!), 3 All Star MVP's, 2 Slam Dunk Titles, The Greatest Will in The History Of Sports, and the list can go on forever!!!!

What about LeBron!? No rings (Dallas will win this series), about to be 0-2 in the Finals, 2 MVP's because he was a ball hog on a horrid Cleaveland team where he was far and away THE guy there and treated like royalty, one scoring title (he has 9 more to go!!!!!!) and doesn't even show up when his team needs him the most (game 5 last year against Boston and last night)... Not to mention he is completely 100% ROBIN to D-Wades BATMAN!!!! Being on the Heat will never allow him to catch MJ in accolades! Period!!!! And not to even mention that the NBA talent level is at an all time low!!!! He is nothing more than a slightly bigger fish in a small pond.....

Point blank: MJ will always be greater than LeBron in every aspect...

You are the exact type of person that the author of this post is speaking about.

You can be a good fan and confident and all of that but you state "Dallas will win this series." To just be so sure that Dallas will win shows your bias and ignorance. I am pulling for the Heat but will be the first to say it could easily go to a last shot in the 7th game with either team winning, both are very good and both have weaknesses. Not to mention that Dallas has not has the lead in the series yet through 4 games. Down 1-0, then 1-1, then 2-1, now 2-2 with game 5 coming.

Think of it this way too, LeBron had the worst Playoff game of his career and the Heat lost only 3 points. If he puts up his usual 15-19 they could have won by double digits, not saying that would have happened but it would have be possible for sure.

I actually have a lot to say about this and since it was posted I am gonna say it all but break it up so its a little easier to read.

The Decision, lets discuss. Does anyone mention or take into account that LeBron raised $2 Million dollars for the Boys and Girls Club of America? Never mentioned, even hard to find that fact anywhere. How is it anymore greedy, or whatever word you would use, that sports people charge to meet them and get an auto? A recent list of stars at a show had about 5 or 6 sports people charging $200 or more a pop to meet them and get 1 auto, and charge more for bigger or nicer items, and they are pocketing some of that. I am sure many of us have done or herd of TTM auto's, some stars charge for the auto in the form of a donation for their charity, how is that any worse? LeBron made nothing of The Decision, just used his start power to raise $2 Million dollars for a good organization.

The Pippen comment, it is a little too early to say that but it could be said. I watched almost all of Jordan's games throughout his career, I am in the area considered local for Bulls games. Jordan was a better shooter for sure but LeBron plays other parts of the game better and more often. He tries to get people in the game more as opposed to shooting all the time, can't say I argue with Jordan shooting all the time. Do you realize how many times Jordan took almost 50 shots in a game? LeBron has NEVER taken almost 50 in a game.

The Heat were not the best team but they weren't that far off and they were really good, had many blowout wins throughout the year. They are only getting better too and people have let bias hate fuel them into thinking they were not that good of a team.

LBJ would have never won in Cleveland and had no reason to stay. They had almost the exact same losing team they had last year and that team minus LeBron was the worst in the league. They should have felt an obligation to build a winner for him just he should have felt the obligation to stay like some think. Then the owner spits out childish insults after the fact, maybe LBJ knew what that was the kind of child that the front office was there.

As far as being Wade's side kick, I don't think LeBron gives a s''t as long as he wins. I think a lot of you are assuming that he is a lot more selfish than he really is. You guys even gives examples of how D-Wade is better. Do you think LeBron doesn't see that too? Have you paid enough attention to notice LeBron's attitude is the same in Miami as it was in Cleveland where he was clearly the star. What does that tell you? He doesn't really care if he is the 5th option but knows the team is relying on him and he has to step up and welcomed the challenge.

I actually respect LeBron for what he did last summer and up to now. He is doing what he wants and trying to win and at the same time playing with 3 other star where he has to compete for top billing. He could have been the star for the Cavs for the rest of his life but gave up that for the chance to win a ring.

Ask yourselves this too....This off season if one of the big names goes to LA, NY, or Boston to join with other stars and try to do the same thing will you hate them like this too? Why is it that no one says anything about Melo holding the Nuggets season hostage by demanding a trade and refusing to sign a deal. His choices where NY and maybe LA, the home of superstars in the game already, seems pretty similar other than LeBron did demand to be traded, did a sign and trade with the Cavs so they got something, and did do it to get max money, he actually agreed to take Millions less than what he could have.

[bengu]

LeBron gets no respect from me sorry!
He is overrated to the extreme. The NBA is/was desperate to crown a "next Michael Jordan" so bad that they immediately dub LeBron "the Chosen One"... Especially after Kobe got into trouble in Colorado, David Stern pushed LeBron to the moon in media hoopla! Ok so if you want to call that Bias then let's get to the facts...

* LeBron skipped College all together, so the argument about him being younger that MJ when accomplishing certain things (like going to the NBA Finals at 22 years old) is null and void! Michael made HIMSELF a star at UNC and even hit the game winning shot to win the NCAA Championship in 1982! Also before playing his first game as a Chicago Bull he won an Olympic Gold Medal in 1984! Both those were more impressive than LeBrons
* LeBron has been classless multiple times that can't be considered opinion... He wanted #23 thinking he deserved to wear it to be like MJ (joke), he has walked straight off the court after losing playoff games without even shaking hands (some ambassador), he's quit on his team multiple times (SO FAR the worst being in the 2010 Playoffs against Boston in game 5, where he stooped so low to even take his Cavs jersey off while he knew the cameras were catching him! Thus signaling he was threw with the team and fans that loved him), he danced and insulted other teams when they were behind in a game, but of course he never could take a dose of his own medicine, his "Decision" had the chance to make him a hero in the eyes of everyone had he just stayed in Cleaveland! If he had just won ONE to three Championships that would have been enough for people to put him in the all time greats list! All this is fact

* He never has been consistent in his career in crunch time. The only two standout games in his ENTIRE 8- year career have been the Detriot game in 2007 and his miracle buzzer beater against the Magic in 2009... The recent Bulls series was a joke, he pretty much just hit a couple big 3-pointers attempting to channel his inner Reggie Miller and lucky for him they actually went in. Hasn't happened again since!
* His MVP awards were based on his teams record and his stats (both inflated by playing weak opponents)... He pretty much was uncoachable and ran out of control behind the scenes.


Well I can go on forever... But LeBron is Robin to Wades Batman and even though he may be an above average superstar, he isn't and will never be considered the greatest of all time! He'll be a Pippen plain and simple only with far less rings if any! Not that there's anything wrong with that... But I think on accolades you can pretty much kiss any future MVP's or Finals MVP's goodbye... And why???? It's simple... He is NOT the most valuable player on his own TEAM let alone the league!!!!!


Great thread!

[sonnyday]

He doesn't deserve all of the extra scrutiny. There's no way he would have won a ring in Cleveland without another star/semi-star free agent. People don't like the fact he left, but how can you blame him? The Cavs drafted him but he didn't ask to go there and just because he is fom Ohio shouldn't mean he can never leave. "They" just need to move on. All in all I believe it's just a matter of time before all is forgiven, just ask Kobe.

How come LeBron never tried to attract other talent to Cleveland?? Where was he in the off seasons? Promoting his brand? Paul Pierce was out there calling guys to come to Boston to play with him. Wade was out there convincing Bosh and LeBron to come play with him. Fact is LeBron made it to the finals with a Rag Tag team and instead of trying to lure help during the off season, he wanted to be on SNL and TV Award Shows.

I hate that excuse that Cleveland never gave him help, that is the biggest crock of BS. LeBron never made one call to anyone trying to convince them to come to Cleveland during Free Agency...why didnt he call anyone??? Because he couldnt commit to any free agents that he was in it for the long haul in Cleveland.

[evolb909]

How come LeBron never tried to attract other talent to Cleveland?? Where was he in the off seasons? Promoting his brand? Paul Pierce was out there calling guys to come to Boston to play with him. Wade was out there convincing Bosh and LeBron to come play with him. Fact is LeBron made it to the finals with a Rag Tag team and instead of trying to lure help during the off season, he wanted to be on SNL and TV Award Shows.

I hate that excuse that Cleveland never gave him help, that is the biggest crock of BS. LeBron never made one call to anyone trying to convince them to come to Cleveland during Free Agency...why didnt he call anyone??? Because he couldnt commit to any free agents that he was in it for the long haul in Cleveland.

Hahaha, Rag Tag team is right. The Eastern Conference must have been hurting that year. Honestly I have no clue if the Cavs brass made any effort to sign star players in free agency. Even if Lebron called players to recruit them who's to say the Cavs could/would even pay another star player star money?

[got watcha want]

bengu- are you from Cleveland?, or even Ohio for that matter? You have a strong opinion and I think lgb struck a chord when he stated the thread being about your type of "general public" opinon. LeBron is getting alot of undeserved "hate"(IMO).

LeBron James has sacrificed money and popularity and YES even stats, all for the sake of winning. Most of the sports nation has been watching this guy since he was 16 for a reason. His athleticism makes him a freak of nature, similiar to his current opponent Dirk in a way.

Lebron James is on a path to be a FIRST BALLOT Hall OF Famer. The comparisons to MJ need to be saved for when his career is over.

All I am really trying to convey is that if you want to compare the Miami Heat to a comic book for you to understand, pick another like the Avengers or like a Fantastic 4 with Bibby as the chick. James is not in a permanent 2nd fiddle in that band, maybe just at the moment with the Mavericks. Did you watch D-Wade in the '06 Finals against the same team?

FYI- Jordan was NOT the first player on his collegiate team to be drafted for a reason, MJ was not supreme statistical standout at that point. Sure he hit possibly the 2nd greatest shot of NCAA history. ( I can think of one better, but off topic)

For the record so people don't think I have flipped my lid......

I am still a Kobe fan.

I am still rooting for the Mavericks in the Finals ( I can referece the threads to back that up)

My wife is the LeBron fan, his games are the only OKC games I can drag her to. If she knew I was defending LeBron like this, I wouldn't hear the end of it.

The thread author had appearently made a valid point and can now back it up with this thread. GREAT THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bengu]

@ got whatcha want... Keep telling yourself that LeBron may one day be as great as MJ while the other 99% of the population take it for what it truly is. Seriously he already blew his chance to be the "best ever" so what your saying makes no sense! Great thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[talkntribe]

You know I gotta laugh when I hear people say LbJ is compared to MJ. As for pippen to make that comment. Pippen never got along with Jordan and Pippen will say anything to keep his name in the public.

I don't respect lebron. He played the city and fans of cleveland. To me it all started when he wore a yankees hat during a tribe game. Sure akron isn't cleveland but Cleveland represents the area. You play in cleveland,and people give you any and everything and this is how you show respect? This guy threw away the playoffs and then has the nerve to say he is going to play with a team who doesn't quit on him. No, He is saying that he is going to play with top prospects because he isn't man enough like Kobe to win a ring on his own for his own town.

He may win a ring but this ring won't mean anything as much as a ring from Kobe or MJ. They have rings that say I did it. I didn't need to piggyback off a group of Top players to win. Lebron is a boy. He may be rich but he is still a boy. He played cleveland. Even in public the boy was rude.

I had a friend who used to be a waitress before she passed away. He came into the place she was working with 12 people. She waited on them for 3 hours. Over 1200. worth of food and beverages. Lebron signed the receipt in scribble and tipped 12.00. Even the owner couldn't believe it. I'm done talking about lebron. I'm just glad when I drive downtown I don't see his stupid wall photo.

Its hard to understand what lebron did especially if you aren't from cleveland or a fan of the cavs. This guy did us so wrong. In his 6 yrs he hasn't won anything. I don't think he'll ever win on his own. Hell he couldn't do it with shaq either. Kobe did.

[xstreaminsanity]

Saying LeBron couldn't do it with Shaq while Kobe did is not really comparable. Shaq won in 2006 with the Heat and had been in the league for 13 years at that time. He didn't get to Cleveland until 2009-10, 4 years after he last won a championship. A few pounds heavier, a lot more banged up, he wasn't the Shaq he was when he was with Kobe, or even when he was with Wade.

LeBron has the potential to have more points in his career than MJ and Kobe.
LeBron has the potential with his current team to win a few championships, but I don't think he would have won any had he stayed in Cleveland.
Kobe has never won a championship on his own. The first three he had Shaq and others (such as Horry, Fischer, etc.) His last two he had Bynum, Gasol, Artest, and others. No, they aren't Shaq, but they are good help
LeBron has enough money that he didn't need to raise money via a TV spot for the Boys and Girls club. He could have stopped at the ATM and pulled out more than that 2 million. lol. That seemed to be for publicity. Not popularity, but as is evidenced by most media, bad publicity is just as, if not more, memorable than good publicity.
I do feel that LeBron will be sacrificing MVP honors, even Finals MVP, since he's in Miami.
LeBron is a phenominal athlete, I just dislike him as a person from what his actions have shown.

[got watcha want]

bengu- With taking into consideration this current Heat team that is built to win for atleast the next five years or so. What if they win 4-5 titles and James gets say 2 of those Finals MVPs while I think he stands a chance at winning League MVP for many times in the years to come. He was 2nd this year after winning it two years in a row! You know the All-Star selections are a gimmee as well. LeBron's resume will stack up with some of the best ever.

I am a Kobe fan, and I think he is about as close to MJ as you can get with active players comparing resume's with the great MJ. But, LeBron has enough of a career in front of him and the potential to surpass Kobe's accolades. When and if James does this, will he be forever compared to MJ (like Kobe is now)?

Wade will have more rings at that point, but didn't Kareem already have a title in the bag before he became a Laker? Kareem still gets no love and he is still the NBA all-time leading scorer from that same type of "Showtime" team as the Heat are now. Kareem is rarely mentioned the greatest ever conversations and rightfully deserves to be mentioned in it. I am sure Wade and James will be debated in that same conversation someday, I asked my fortune teller and they confirmed it.

I think that Kareem wasn't and LeBron won't be marketed as well as the GREAT MJ!. Because of their off court personas, as well as MJ being the greatest marketed player ever. The global basketball market was completely different back then and what happened with MJ can never happen again.

You need to admit that the potential is there to have a greatest player conversation in the future and it include LeBron James in the conversation. I know he is not there now.



talkintribe- I completely agree with your "boy" statement about LeBron James. He was in the lime light since childhood and never really grew up. You can see that in the immaturity of his actions.

But, I am pretty sure it was really really hard to find a LeBron hater in Cleveland the day he was drafted or when he was in his first Finals appearance. When you strip all that "Diva" drama and off court antics away, you are left with an exciting player to watch and a player that will pile up impressive stats. You also have to admit that MJ and Kobe both had impressive squads around them when they won any championships.

I said from the begining of this thread that MJ and LeBron should not be compared, and I still can't belive I am defending LeBum. The thing is that from a pure basketball standpoint he has done impressive things and will continue to do so. I am actually impressed about his unselfishness on his team and his drive to win a Title.
I still don't like the guy's actions, presentation, personality, and I especially despise his camp and their means of marketing their cash cow. These are the reasons that this thread title has merit, but it is not like he cheated on his wife (Kobe) or has a gambling problem (MJ). The amount of hate on this guy is undeserved.