nittany13 Wrote:

GINGE01 Wrote:

nittany13 Wrote:First off I want to thank GINGE01 for taking the time to do some unrequested research for me back in March. Although I've been dropping by this message board periodically over the past several months this is the first time that I have posted anything in a while since I have been busy lately, hence the odd timing of my response.<br />
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Over time both GINGE01 and jaderock have made many excellent submissions in response to questions germane to 1990s cards. Bravo!<br />
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GINGE01 - In reference to your insights concerning the four Kerry Collins Classic 5-Sport/Signings autos I submitted...<br />
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Cards 1 and 3 are both listed in the OPG and the older Beckett annuals that I own, so there is no mystery there.<br />
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Card 2 is not listed in the OPG and I cannot find it in the older Beckett annuals either. If you look in one of your older yearly guides and peruse over the specific set checklist that I claim this card is from you will find other autographed cards from that very set that are also serial numbered to 225, which is why I think it is from that set.<br />
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Card 4 on the other hand is a complete mystery, although it most likely is a Hot Box variation of some sort. From reading your comments I infer you did not notice the extra logo found at the back bottom of card 4 which is not found on card 3 (check out the scan again). One theory I have is that card 4 was supposed to be the Hot Box variation distributed in packs but was later recalled because the Player's Association did not give permission to have their logo on the card, but I do not think I will ever know for sure at this point. The signature looks very fraudulent to me too. If my hypothesis is true perhaps someone bought all these non-autographed "scrapped" cards at an auction after the company went bankrupt, forged it and then sold it online. Either way I still do not have buyer's remorse for my purchase because the card is a legitimate variation in my eyes nonetheless.

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Hi Nittany13, thanks for your kind comments, just trying to help you, that Card 4 is certainly a mystery.<br />
Some extra thoughts, yes I missed looking at the NFL Players Association logo. The scans I provided of Kyle Brady and Hugh Douglas 5 sport Autos have Brady in a Penn State uni, Douglas's photo is from a 1995 Jets minicamp, there are Jets veterans Roger Duffy and Matt Willig in the background. Subtle airbrushing has removed any possiblity of Jets being seen on Douglas's helmet.<br />
The two versions of each player, unnumbered and numbered to 225 have the same 4 logos on the reverse side of the card, at the bottom, all the Brady and Douglas auto cards have the NFL Players Association logo present.<br />
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Here is my guess, the players probably signed an agreement with the NFL Players Association allowing for their likeness, names etc to be produced. So Classic printed these NFL players Association logos on the reverse bottom of the cards. 5 Sport does not name the team Jets, only New York J, probably to avoid licensing problems, Classic with the 5 Sport product is an agreement with the players, but not with NFL Properties..<br />
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So your card 3 numbered to 625 probably is one of the autos in the 1995 Classic Five-Sport Hot Box Autographs insert set that was signed by Collins before Collins has signed an agreement with the NFL Players Association. I don't know if the Hot Boxes were produced seperately, the Beckett Guide writeups makes it impossible to tell what exactly the Hot Boxes were. <br />
From Beckett Football Card Price Guide 18 (1998.) "This set of six autographed standard-sized cards were randomly inserted in Hobby Hot Boxes. The cards are identical to the regular Hot Box inserts with the exception of a players signature on the front."<br />
The price guide 18 gives no reference so no price to the regular Hot Box inserts, so I have no idea what Beckett was talking about!!!<br />
It is very confusing and inconsistent.<br />
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What is also inconsistent is Kerry Collins of Penn State having different logos on the reverse bottom of the card (no NFL Players association) compare to Kyle Brady of Penn State. Did Collins not sign an agreement straight away, so Classic issued cards for him without the NFL players logo as you have for card 1, card 2 and card 3?? card 3 being the different back to card 1 and 2, the assumption is a Hot Box auto.<br />
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After Collins signed an agreement, did that mean that any other Classic product had to include the NFL Players Association logo. If so, which product.<br />
Or was card 4, additional cards produced in the event auto cards were returned, to be exchanged, but now containing a NFL Players Assocition logo. It should be an auto card, because of the back of the card saying it is. It's seems a lot of effort to produce additional cards with a different back.<br />
Or was card 4 going to be an auto insert in a product that never got released, but Collins had signed an agreement with the NFL Players Association so the cards had to reflect that, hence a different back with 4 logos. That is my guess, a cancelled product but after Classic / Score Board disappeared somebody bought up that card with others and sold it through the secondary market, or bought the unautoed cards ready to be signed by Collins and made a poor attempt at faking the auto but it still got sold. Definitely a mystery

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-GINGE01<br />
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Your theory as to why the NFLPA logos are on only some of the backs of the cards seems very logical to me. Recently I perused the backs of some other player auto cards from that insert set and noticed that some player cards had that fourth logo while others did not, interesting. <br />
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I have been trying to figure out all this Hot Box nonsense myself. My theory is these were specially marked wax pack boxes that contained one of these auto cards in one of the packs. I have been trying to find one of these Hot Box boxes online (if such a thing exists) in the hope to help solve this mystery. If a Hot Box wax box does exist I have not yet been able to find one on sale from an online dealer anywhere. <br />
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Your other theory as to why the NFLPA logo is on one of the Kerry Collins auto cards and not the other is also interesting, and very plausible. In fact I am inclined to believe that is the most likely explanation. <br />
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I think you and I should start our own detective agency specializing in Classic/Scoreboard/Pro Line sets, whaddya say?

GINGE01 Wrote:Thanks Dan for the adding of the 2008 Score Factory Updates, I hope there are 31 other team collectors that can send in to Beckett information to update their teams also.<br />
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Is it going to be possible to add the other three Jets Score Factory update glossy variations that were only available in the Blister Packs <br />
216 Glossy Calvin Pace...........(from blister packs)<br />
106 Glossy Brett Favre............(from blister packs)<br />
336 Glossy Vernon Gholston....(from blister packs) <br />
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I did a search on ebay, there is a different Jets 2008 Score blister pack, different packaging, with Leon Washington on the front. That contained non glossy cards, the same as the card in packs.<br />
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A search on Amazon shows the Blister Pack with Favre on the front which I wrote about, but only for the Jets. Did Donruss create this blister pack for the Jets for the purpose of selling a Favre card in a Jets uniform at a time when there was great demand for Favre cards in a Jets uniform and created the 3 new cards above as unique (Factory Update glossy) cards.