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+--- Thread: Insurance -- The post office rant thread got me on this (/thread-1554276.html)
Insurance -- The post office rant thread got me on this - fast93bird - 02-05-2014
Does anyone here view being charged for insurance with the USPS as more of a scam than it does as a safety net?
For instance, think of how many items are sent with insurance paid for and nothing comes of it. Then of those insurance claims made, I'd be very curious to see what the payout ratio on those is.
My take on it, you're paying the post office to provide a service, that is delivering your package to the intended recipient. Logic would say that you're paying them do to this in a timely efficient manner and such that the item arrives undamaged.
Why society accepted the notion of "we're going to charge you a fee so that if we damage your item you entrust to us and pay us to deliver then we'll cover the damages," I'll never know. It just seems ridiculous to me that we have to pay extra to the USPS to get our money back if it's damaged as if it's our responsibility to ensure safe handling along the way. I've been a mechanic and I sure as heck don't charge people extra to ensure I don't damage their vehicle while working on it.
Anyone else see it like this?
I know someone is going to bring up the USPS Protecting itself against scamming. Sure, there will be scammers everywhere. But THIS is the point that you as the sender would have to PROVE the items condition before it left. Pics, packaging at post office with employee signature, something like that. THIS would be acceptable for the sender, but not for the sender to pay to cover themselves when the entity providing the service should assume full liability once it's in their hands.
RE: Insurance -- The post office rant thread got me on this - ceocards - 02-05-2014
To play devil's advocate on a couple of your points:
(02-05-2014, 04:00 PM)fast93bird Wrote: For instance, think of how many items are sent with insurance paid for and nothing comes of it. Then of those insurance claims made, I'd be very curious to see what the payout ratio on those is.
Well..that's exactly how insurance...ANY insurance works. Most people pay premiums and never collect; those un-claimed premiums are used to pay the times that a claim is made.
Quote:My take on it, you're paying the post office to provide a service, that is delivering your package to the intended recipient. Logic would say that you're paying them do to this in a timely efficient manner and such that the item arrives undamaged.
That would require a significant increase in the cost of postage to pay for "guaranteed safe" delivery.
I mean look at the PO's financials - they aren't exactly swimming in cash right now. They're barely scraping by. If instead of collecting an insurance fee to create a pool of money from which to pay insurance claims, they just had to pay those claims out of their general funds, they'd have no choice but to jack up prices just to remain even with where they are now (which is STILL in the red).
Quote:I've been a mechanic and I sure as heck don't charge people extra to ensure I don't damage their vehicle while working on it.
No...but I bet you (or your company) has a liability insurance policy (and pays for it!!) to cover any claims of damage you or any of your co-workers might accidentally do while fixing a car. And if you/your company is savvy at business, the cost of that insurance is already factored into your hourly labor rate. So (indirectly) your customers ARE paying extra to cover insurance.
RE: Insurance -- The post office rant thread got me on this - branesergen - 02-05-2014
Do you own the shop or work there? If own I'm sure you have insurance to protect against loss if you do damage a car. Say wreck it while test driving. Also - and the biggest factor - is you're not putting your business in the hands of your customers. Meaning you are not making sure they package it properly as having an employee watch and sign someone elses packing ways would just be way to time consuming. You also don't deal with millions of cars a day. If you did you would have to have some sort of protection as the odds that something happens is greatly inceased. Most people sign waivers against loss or damage, the PO just has that as their business model. If you ship with USPS you are responsible for loss or damage. If you don't want to be responsible then here is some insurance. I spent $12 to ship 7 graded cards today. Half of that was to cover the $500 in insurance. The $6 is worth piece of mind knowing I wont be out those cards if something were to happen as well as the person I sent them to will also have piece of mind knowing that if something were to happen to them he is covered
If the PO only handled 100 or so packages a day then I'm sure they could afford to eat the losses or hire employees to watch you pack your stuff. But they don't so we're left footing the bill. I'm sure insurance claims are in the millions a year. Insurance - Its better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!
RE: Insurance -- The post office rant thread got me on this - fast93bird - 02-05-2014
Ok, yes I understand the shop insurance deal. I was speaking more along the lines of getting it dirty, door ding, things you wouldn't turn into insurance.
I don't know. I've always been of the mindset that if you're paying a company to provide a service and you're trusting them with your possession during their service, that should anything happen to your item the company would be responsible. It's just amazing to me that you can send something through the post office and if they lose it, too bad. It used to not be the way it is now, that I'm sure of. I just feel like paying for insurance at the post office is like being upcharged to make up for their lack of accountability.
Oh, and Branesergen, I see what you did there. Too funny, but a very applicable example, lol.
RE: Insurance -- The post office rant thread got me on this - rjcj2017 - 02-05-2014
I will say this ... it burns me when I pay extra for "tracking" ... then the package never shows up ... and the only good the "tracking" does is they are able to confirm it's lost.
To me, if I just send the card without any proof of delivery or confirmation or whatever, it's on me if they lose it.
But when I pay roughly 33 percent extra to track it ($3 instead of $2), I shouldn't have to pay for "insurance" on top of it.
RE: Insurance -- The post office rant thread got me on this - favrecollectors4 - 02-05-2014
If you want "free" insurance, you have multiple options. You can ship via Fed Ex or UPS, which claims to have free insurance, but only covers some of the cost and you are paying more for it anyway. Oh, and they'll still send it to the PO to deliver to you.
You can also ship via Priority. It costs more, but is usually still cheaper than that other option I talked about. You get free tracking, $50 of insurance up front, and it'll get there in 2 or 3 days.
None of these options are worth it unless you're shipping something high end IMO. You need to weigh the cost versus how badly you want that card or cards to get to the person they're intended for.
My suggestion: Pack it nice and awesome (yes, that's a technical term). Sacrifice old top loaders and put one on each side of the card. Team bags are nice for enclosing all of these. Bubble wrap will work, as will cardboard.
Then, after all of that, have it marked "fragile" with a big rubber stamp when you drop it off at the PO. It's still not perfect, but will significantly increase your chances of making it in one piece.
Oh, insurance also covers if an item disappears in the mail stream, just as certain types of car insurance would cover if your car is stolen.
BTW, car insurance is required in my state. We don't get a choice. You always have a choice at the PO.
Just my 2ยข
RE: Insurance -- The post office rant thread got me on this - jywilli69 - 02-05-2014
When I sold on Ebay, I gave the customer the option of insurance if they wanted to pay for it. A lot of them didn't want it. I never did PWE on Ebay, and I always do Bubble Mailers or Small Flat-Rate boxes . I always do USPS Tracking. There are people out there that would lie, cheat, and steal from Sellers and Buyers. If I have a High Dollar Card $50 +, I will use insurance for my protection. If I do a trade and someone tells me I sent them a damaged card, they will have to prove it, just like I would have to prove it to the Post Office that they damaged the package. You would be suprised what people would do to get stuff.I try to treat all trades as the way I would want to be treated. I hate hearing about how trades go bad or box breaks, it is very sad. I just hope we all don't have to experience back luck with the insurance thing.
RE: Insurance -- The post office rant thread got me on this - favrecollectors4 - 02-05-2014
(02-05-2014, 07:58 PM)jywilli69 Wrote: When I sold on Ebay, I gave the customer the option of insurance if they wanted to pay for it. A lot of them didn't want it. I never did PWE on Ebay, and I always do Bubble Mailers or Small Flat-Rate boxes . I always do USPS Tracking. There are people out there that would lie, cheat, and steal from Sellers and Buyers. If I have a High Dollar Card $50 +, I will use insurance for my protection. If I do a trade and someone tells me I sent them a damaged card, they will have to prove it, just like I would have to prove it to the Post Office that they damaged the package. You would be suprised what people would do to get stuff.I try to treat all trades as the way I would want to be treated. I hate hearing about how trades go bad or box breaks, it is very sad. I just hope we all don't have to experience back luck with the insurance thing.
Amen. In my experience, seventy percent of claims made are people just trying to scam the system. It has nothing to do with USPS, Paypal, or eBay. They found loopholes in the system (each of them have loopholes of some sort) and use it to get free stuff from us or a refund through paypal that still gives them the item they wanted. These people need to be found, beaten, tarred and feathered, then stuck out in public for all of us to point at and laugh maniacally.Most people are honest, but it is the a-holes that make us all want to scream.
RE: Insurance -- The post office rant thread got me on this - branesergen - 02-05-2014
(02-05-2014, 08:41 PM)favrecollectors4 Wrote: Amen. In my experience, seventy percent of claims made are people just trying to scam the system. It has nothing to do with USPS, Paypal, or eBay. They found loopholes in the system (each of them have loopholes of some sort) and use it to get free stuff from us or a refund through paypal that still gives them the item they wanted. These people need to be found, beaten, tarred and feathered, then stuck out in public for all of us to point at and laugh maniacally.Most people are honest, but it is the a-holes that make us all want to scream.
This. Everything done over the internet is honor system based. I could buy $1000 worth of cards and get them all for free if I wanted to and was delicate about it. There is a way around every flaw that is buying/selling on the internet. You put your trust in it and hope it works and that the good people out weight the bad.
RE: Insurance -- The post office rant thread got me on this - jywilli69 - 02-05-2014
Some people have honor, some people don't. Only hosing I ever got on Ebay, I purchased a 1955 Topps All-American Jim Thorpe. Card looked like NM/MT Condition. I won the auction and I got it for $18 and some change. I paid for the item right then from Paypal. I never got the card and didn't get my money back. I was new to Ebay and Paypal. I was upset. I trust no one when it comes to selling cards. That is why I always do Bubble Mailers/Small Flat-Rate Boxes with tracking. I have heard about people getting hosed on sales, and it is sad. Then we can talk about trades. I find myself concerned about trading sometimes, because you never know if the trade is going to be a smooth trade or if it is going to be bumpy. When it comes to collecting, I would be considered a small fish in the Big Sea. So most of my cards are cheap compared to some of your collections. So I will start using insurance if cards are $50 plus.
(02-05-2014, 08:58 PM)branesergen Wrote: This. Everything done over the internet is honor system based. I could buy $1000 worth of cards and get them all for free if I wanted to and was delicate about it. There is a way around every flaw that is buying/selling on the internet. You put your trust in it and hope it works and that the good people out weight the bad.