Yesterday Lebron surpassed Jordan with 74 playoff games totaling at least 25, 5 and 5. No one in the history of the NBA has more. He's beginning to set the bar higher for this new generation.
Now people should start putting him in the best ever conversation IMO. I know a lot of people are going to still say Jordan is, which I have no problem with, but the kid is still earned his accolades. What do you all think?
lebron, because he still has at a minimum of 5 years left, is definitely in the conversation. and i still dont put jordan as the best ever (biggest impact, maybe. he, along with the dream team, made the game global. but on the court, i dont it can definitely be said that jordan is the best
rings aint everything. it can be an indicator you have an incredible team around you (bill russell and 5 other hall of famers), it can be an indicator that the league was at a weaker moment. it can be an indicator of a new playing system which a coach has dreamed up that utilizes that player perfectly.
for me, jordan is definitively in the top 3, and that is mostly a function of his defense. lebron might not as tenacious as jordan was on defense, but i also one of the most versatile defenders to ever play the game. he is a uy that can legitimately guard all 5 positions for a game
Jordan's teams didn't need so many 6 and 7 game series as LeBron's teams do.
Meanwhile, Jordan played in an era when the first round was typically best of 5.
Finally, LeBron might have the record for 25/5/5 games, but those statistics are arbitrary. What about 30/5/5? Or 40 point games? etc.
Context is important.
(05-27-2014, 09:18 AM)will23c1982 Wrote: [ -> ]Jordan's teams didn't need so many 6 and 7 game series as LeBron's teams do.
Meanwhile, Jordan played in an era when the first round was typically best of 5.
Finally, LeBron might have the record for 25/5/5 games, but those statistics are arbitrary. What about 30/5/5? Or 40 point games? etc.
Context is important.
i think you need to back your first point up with actual stats, however, we can always just look at games played in the playoffs and see the ration. in general i agree. but it also doesnt consider the context that lebron is in the peak of his career
so:
lebron, 151 playoff games
jordan, 179 playoff games
so, all that conjecture if yours? moot
25/5/5 isnt exactly arbitrary, but what would you like it to be?
Why is 25/5/5 an important statistic? Who decided that is something to base anything off of?
(05-27-2014, 09:26 AM)jacobystealshome Wrote: [ -> ]i think you need to back your first point up with actual stats, however, we can always just look at games played in the playoffs and see the ration. in general i agree. but it also doesnt consider the context that lebron is in the peak of his career
so:
lebron, 151 playoff games
jordan, 179 playoff games
so, all that conjecture if yours? moot
25/5/5 isnt exactly arbitrary, but what would you like it to be?
Good point on the number of games played. That's an easy way to show that LeBron's 'record' is impressive.
None the less, I still believe statistics like this are arbitrary. For example, perhaps Jordan had lots of games with 4 assists (obviously I doubt this is the case, but you see my point).
Why 25/5/5?
If we chose 20/8/8 as our measure perhaps Magic would be ranked first.
Or if we chose 20/20 then Wilt might be top.
If we chose higher points - maybe 35/5/5 - then Jordan might be first.
25/5/5 is completely arbitrary, much like all the numbers I just plucked out of thin air.
Instead, we should look at playoff career averages, playoff career totals, playoff WS per 48, playoff PER, etc.
And even then, LeBron might be 1st (once he's retired). But using 25/5/5 is a bizarre measure, much like Durant's recent 'record' of 40+ point games (which was nowhere near a record, since Wilt had many more such games, but ESPN and other media outlets like to conveniently overlook the 1960s).
To prove my point, here are various other playoff records, each of which is completely arbitrary.
35-5-5 games:
Jordan - 34
LeBron - 19
30-3-3 games:
Jordan - 90
LeBron - 61
35-3-3 games:
Jordan - 61
LeBron - 25
40-3-3 games:
Jordan - 30
LeBron - 11
(05-27-2014, 01:18 PM)will23c1982 Wrote: [ -> ]Good point on the number of games played. That's an easy way to show that LeBron's 'record' is impressive.
None the less, I still believe statistics like this are arbitrary. For example, perhaps Jordan had lots of games with 4 assists (obviously I doubt this is the case, but you see my point).
Why 25/5/5?
If we chose 20/8/8 as our measure perhaps Magic would be ranked first.
Or if we chose 20/20 then Wilt might be top.
If we chose higher points - maybe 35/5/5 - then Jordan might be first.
25/5/5 is completely arbitrary, much like all the numbers I just plucked out of thin air.
Instead, we should look at playoff career averages, playoff career totals, playoff WS per 48, playoff PER, etc.
And even then, LeBron might be 1st (once he's retired). But using 25/5/5 is a bizarre measure, much like Durant's recent 'record' of 40+ point games (which was nowhere near a record, since Wilt had many more such games, but ESPN and other media outlets like to conveniently overlook the 1960s).
To prove my point, here are various other playoff records, each of which is completely arbitrary.
35-5-5 games:
Jordan - 34
LeBron - 19
30-3-3 games:
Jordan - 90
LeBron - 61
35-3-3 games:
Jordan - 61
LeBron - 25
40-3-3 games:
Jordan - 30
LeBron - 11
I wasn't talking about you so much as why yahoo sports and ESPN have been posting this all over the place like its some super important milestone. I've never even heard of people keeping track of that stat until recently. ESPN is just using this to build a story around and fuel the fire for more Jordan vs Lebron controversies.
(05-27-2014, 02:07 PM)aviat0rshades Wrote: [ -> ]I wasn't talking about you so much as why yahoo sports and ESPN have been posting this all over the place like its some super important milestone. I've never even heard of people keeping track of that stat until recently. ESPN is just using this to build a story around and fuel the fire for more Jordan vs Lebron controversies.
I agree 100%.
LeBron is awesome and will retire alongside Jordan as the greatest ever. But we don't need stupid statistical comparisons like this.
I wasn't talking about you so much as why yahoo sports and ESPN have been posting this all over the place like its some super important milestone. I've never even heard of people keeping track of that stat until recently. ESPN is just using this to build a story around and fuel the fire for more Jordan vs Lebron controversies.
I agree 100%.
LeBron is awesome and will retire alongside Jordan as the greatest ever. But we don't need stupid statistical comparisons like this.
I agree with both Will and Jason here. All along I have always thought Lebron should have/should be compared to Magic. It is really hard to compare Jordan/Lebron because they have two different styles of play. I get that Jordan and Lebron are being talked about as being the best but all these comparisons and talk on ESPN are really annoying. You never see Jordan being compared to Bill Russell... I do not know if there is really any way to say who is better (rings, points per game, records?). For every stat someone can probably find another stat to prove the previous stat wrong (as already seen). All I care about at this point is that Lebron is getting credit for his amazing play. Is he better than Jordan, who knows? Will he better? Who knows. But he is an amazing player. What he does on the court is truly amazing. ESPN and other media are simply trying to create stories and stir up garbage.
I just had a quick thought about this...
Back in the 90's players could get away with hard fouls and the game was played a little different then it is today. If Jordan played in today’s NBA, his stats would be insane and defiantly would be on the foul line a whole lot more, adding to his scoring.
This is all hypothetical but is interesting to think about.