All this is true, but its just reaffirms my earlier point - if they dont like the conditions of their workplace then find a new one with better pay, and if they cant, then they are obviously doing alright. Im afraid i dont agree with you on the overpaid part, i think theyre grossly overpaid.... most sports people are - irrelevant of their conditions, bargaining agreements, etc. But at the lower spectrum of the pay structuring, yeah youre probably right.
I just wonder if the paramedics had been locked out by government/health institutions because theyre asking for a payrise if people would see it the same way.
grr what is it with players realy 50/50 deal seam fair why would they say no I guess the players are enjoying thier break still have them come back when the want to really think about getting a season going
We'll have to agree to disagree. It's a matter of defining whether they're payed to put a puck in the net, which makes no money for anyone, or sell tickets, jersyes, hats, food, parking, programs, advertising, TV deals. You say it's for putting a puck in a net and that's valid, I look at it differently.
To irbe's post, I forgot to add, should a carpenter take less pay because people out there pay to make things as a hobby? They buy their own tools and materials and do it for free for themselves, just like you and many others buy the equipment and pay the fees to play hockey. Should the carpenter take any less? Why should the players?
Are they overpaid for what they add to society? Absolutely. I'd rather see that kind of money going to paramedics, firefighters, soldiers and the like. But they bring in disgusting amounts of money, so they should take home disgusting amounts of money. Actors get paid millions to play make believe, but no one was saying the cast of Modern Family was a bunch of whiney brats this summer, even though many people would do the same job, worse, for much less pay and many people act for fun in community theatres. The fact of the matter is Those actors bring in ridiculous amounts of advertising revenue, so they take out ridiculous amounts.
I'm all for 50/50 split. I've actually said that from the beginning. Without these players, an inferior product is on the ice and sales go down. The owners depend on the players. Without the owners, there are no teams to play for. The players depend on the owners. The owners are taking a fincancial risk, the players a physical risk. 50/50 makes total sense and if that's all you look at, then yes, they should have taken it.
Good for them for looking at more than that. Agreements are in place and now the league wants 12% of it back. That's not right at any number in any job anywhere. You sign a contract, you hold it up. You don't lock workers out and extort some of it back from them.
>>I'm all for 50/50 split. I've actually said that from the beginning. Without these players, an inferior product is on the ice and sales go down. The owners depend on the players. Without the owners, there are no teams to play for. The players depend on the owners. The owners are taking a fincancial risk, the players a physical risk. 50/50 makes total sense and if that's all you look at, then yes, they should have taken it<<
The owners can get new players that will play for nothing... The players cant get new owners that will give them an absurd percentage... Players need to suck it up and welcome the the real world.... This generation needs to get there a**es kicked a few times by a gang of Probert, Kocur, Grimson, Domi & Gaetz... Maybe thatll knock some sence into their prissy lil heads.
Agreeing to disagree is never a bad thing though, and i agree that we have agree to disagree lol. Healthy debate often brings out new facts, perspectives you may not have thought of before and encourages new ideas. I think the thing we can safely all agree on even the owners and the players, is that we all want to see hockey ASAP, and when that happens, we all win.
Thanks for the views today guys, i can honestly say i learned a few things out of this conversation
May there be hockey soon!
(10-18-2012, 11:30 PM)irbecards32 Wrote: [ -> ]The owners can get new players that will play for nothing...
Yes. Players with far less talent who provide a far lesser product and bring in far fewer fans and, by extension, far less money. If that's acceptable to you, well okay then. Not me.
(10-18-2012, 11:30 PM)irbecards32 Wrote: [ -> ]The players cant get new owners that will give them an absurd percentage...
Just like no one can replace the best players in the world.
(10-18-2012, 11:30 PM)irbecards32 Wrote: [ -> ]Players need to suck it up and welcome the the real world....
The owners need to suck it up and honour the contracts they were stupid enough to sign.
(10-18-2012, 11:30 PM)irbecards32 Wrote: [ -> ]This generation needs to get there a**es kicked a few times by a gang of Probert, Kocur, Grimson, Domi & Gaetz...Maybe thatll knock some sence into their prissy lil heads.
The owners need their heads knocked in by a gang of 6 year olds. Maybe then they'd learn to honour the contracts they've already signed instead of extorting it back by locking out workers.
You do remember this is a lock out, right? You do remember the owners decided there will be no hockey, not the players, right? You do realize the players are simply asking for contracts that have already been signed to be honoured, right?
Here is where I think the Players should go next. Make a proposal that does 3 things.
1. A 50/50 split after year one of the deal. Year 1 would be 53.5/46.5 split in favor of players so as to make the transition easier.
2. All contracts must be honored by the League at what they where signed for. If Some one signs a contract with me to pay may a set amount and then later tries to lock me out and force a deal he would find himself in court. The players and owners signed these long term deals legally.
3. Let the salary cap gap for year one be what it was originally at $70 M, but make the bottom salary cap be more like $45 instead of the standard $16 M difference to make it easier on the small markets that would struggle at $54 M.
Make the length of the deal 7 years with mutual options for up to 3 more years.
I also think that they is a minority of players that are really pushing this hard line stand-- mostly made up of those who gave up so much last time and do not want to see more lost this time.
First of all neither side gets my sympathy.
The owners are money laden fools and the players are over paid athletes.
Hockey has the worst history of labor problems in the professional sport.
The owners want their cake and eat it too.
They want protection from their stupidity at the expense of the players.I hope the players
make a stand even if that means there is no NHL for multiple seasons.
I stopped going to NHL games years ago and would rather watch WHL or tier 2 junior. Better to support players who love the game and are not driven by the all mighty $$$
Both sides can take their marbles and their skipping rope and go home and sulk.
I was going to add my opinion to this conversation, but wickabee is doing such a good job of describing how I feel, I'm just gonna let him keep talking..
Couple of things:
Lockout vs strike. A lockout is necessary if you want to make a deal. Without the lockout the NHLPA would have just dragged out negotiations until a point where the NHL would be in a bad bargaining position (ei: playoffs). Anyone remember what happened in the MLB when FEHR initiated a STRIKE with the Expos in 1st place? Remainder of the season and PLAYOFFS got cancelled.
Not honouring contracts: It's not that simple. Every contract that is signed is subject to the CBA. If the CBA is changing, contracts are going to be affected. Players, owners and agents all know this. It is the environment in which they all do business.
This latest pitch by the NHL will only get worst for the players. With the inability to complete a full 82 game schedule, revenues are going to suffer and the players are going to suffer the consequences just like the owners.
The players made a huge overreaction to the butt kicking they got 5 years ago by hiring Fehr. He will cost them dearly in the long run.