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(02-02-2012, 08:48 AM)scottishpunk Wrote: [ -> ]I usually agree with most of you say on these boards sonnyday, but Beckett holders do have UV protection built into the plastics they use for the slab. I am about 75% sure I am getting out of the whole grading my collection business. I did it mainly for protecting my PC, making sure other people who handle my cards won't damage them. I chose Beckett because they have the strongest holders, but I just can't get myself to send any more in due the poor service of their web site and the non-existent registry. Over one year and nothing!! That is just bad business.

If I were to resell cards, especially anything prior to 1990, you would have to go with PSA. I really hate the look of a PSA case. If SGC gets the ability to slab thicker cards, I would seriously think about them.
SGC has the ability now. I was talking to one of the reps today on the phone and he told me there is only a very, very few cards that are too thick for them to slab. I hate to say this, but I'm liking SGC a whole better.
(04-27-2014, 07:58 PM)ricelynnevans75 Wrote: [ -> ]People grade with PSA because they like PSA for whatever reason. Doesn't make them any less of a "collector" than you or anybody. Additionally, people will compare a PSA 10 with a BGS 9.5 because they are assigned the same grade of "Gem Mint". The numbers given by any grading company are meaningless without a definition. SGC has a grade of 100. Does that mean an SGC 100 is better than a BGS 10 because it's a higher number even though both are defined as "Pristine"?
Well, first off, I never implied that they were less of a collector. I said most people that grade cards with PSA are in it for the money because they grade softer and they also are cheaper. Those are just plain hard facts. I never said ALL PSA graders fit that description, I said most do. Ill bet you cant find me a single BGS grader that sent into Beckett looking for a better grade on a card than what PSA already gave it.
Secondly, if you say people are comparing not the number, but the words that say "gem mint" why is it that BGS's definition of Gem Mint is very different than PSA's more lenient grading specifics? The card does not have to be as well centered, matter of fact, the back of the cards centering can be as bad as 75/25!! So, in fact, people are grading BGS for cards in hopes of getting a better grade than BGS and then trying to sell them for the same or more than a BGS equivalent. So, in summary, its not about the numbers or even the words, its all about the grading stipulations which are very clearly stating that a PSA 10 is allowed to be an inferior card compared to a BGS 9.5. Gem mint means a bit more when BGS says it.
Does anyone know if SGC even grades the back side of the card? It doesnt say that they do on their grading scale page.
(04-30-2014, 10:34 PM)cardariffic Wrote: [ -> ]Well, first off, I never implied that they were less of a collector. I said most people that grade cards with PSA are in it for the money because they grade softer and they also are cheaper. Those are just plain hard facts. I never said ALL PSA graders fit that description, I said most do. Ill bet you cant find me a single BGS grader that sent into Beckett looking for a better grade on a card than what PSA already gave it.
Secondly, if you say people are comparing not the number, but the words that say "gem mint" why is it that BGS's definition of Gem Mint is very different than PSA's more lenient grading specifics? The card does not have to be as well centered, matter of fact, the back of the cards centering can be as bad as 75/25!! So, in fact, people are grading BGS for cards in hopes of getting a better grade than BGS and then trying to sell them for the same or more than a BGS equivalent. So, in summary, its not about the numbers or even the words, its all about the grading stipulations which are very clearly stating that a PSA 10 is allowed to be an inferior card compared to a BGS 9.5. Gem mint means a bit more when BGS says it.
+5000 Well said!!

-CC WIHPP
(04-30-2014, 10:34 PM)cardariffic Wrote: [ -> ]Well, first off, I never implied that they were less of a collector. I said most people that grade cards with PSA are in it for the money because they grade softer and they also are cheaper. Those are just plain hard facts.
Well, since these are "plain hard facts", I'm assuming you've asked "most" of the people that grade cards with PSA why they do so? Because, you know, facts require things like actual evidence and stuff. Secondly, read what you typed. If a grading company has a history of grading softer and they are cheaper, why would someone submit to them knowing they are receiving inferior quality and, in turn, why would people pay the prices they do for such inferior quality?

(04-30-2014, 10:34 PM)cardariffic Wrote: [ -> ]I never said ALL PSA graders fit that description, I said most do.
I'm pretty sure I didn't state that you said "ALL" PSA graders fit the description. And again, "most". You'd have to get a pretty good sample size of PSA graders to ask in order to make that assertion valid.

(04-30-2014, 10:34 PM)cardariffic Wrote: [ -> ]Ill bet you cant find me a single BGS grader that sent into Beckett looking for a better grade on a card than what PSA already gave it.
I'm pretty sure I could. Loads of people do this between the various grading companies. Secondly, if BGS IS stricter/tougher/whatever, why would someone purchase a PSA graded card in the first place only to submit to BGS if it's "supposedly" going to come back at a lesser grade anyway or, at most, equal to the PSA grade? Doesn't sound like a very economic shopper to me.

(04-30-2014, 10:34 PM)cardariffic Wrote: [ -> ]Secondly, if you say people are comparing not the number, but the words that say "gem mint" why is it that BGS's definition of Gem Mint is very different than PSA's more lenient grading specifics?
You should re-read what I said. I said, and I quote, "The numbers given by any grading company are meaningless without a definition". This was in response to why people compare a PSA 10 and a BGS 9.5, which are assigned a grade based on the definitions applied to the grade which in this case is Gem Mint. However, now that you've acknowledged the definitions, I'm curious why you would then turn around and compare a PSA 10 to a BGS 10 since the definitions are vastly different, much more so than comparing a PSA 10 and BGS 9.5. To go further, even the definitions are meaningless unless they are accurately applied to the card based on the definitions/standards.

(04-30-2014, 10:34 PM)cardariffic Wrote: [ -> ]The card does not have to be as well centered, matter of fact, the back of the cards centering can be as bad as 75/25!!
Again, application of the standards. And yes, I realize all grading companies make errors.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Topps-Chrom...SS:US:1123

(04-30-2014, 10:34 PM)cardariffic Wrote: [ -> ]So, in fact, people are grading BGS for cards in hopes of getting a better grade than BGS and then trying to sell them for the same or more than a BGS equivalent.
You know this for a fact how exactly? Oh, this must be all those people you asked. Here's a hint, just because that's what you believe does not make it fact.

(04-30-2014, 10:34 PM)cardariffic Wrote: [ -> ]So, in summary, its not about the numbers or even the words, its all about the grading stipulations which are very clearly stating that a PSA 10 is allowed to be an inferior card compared to a BGS 9.5. Gem mint means a bit more when BGS says it.
Again, application of the stipulations. It means more? Based on what the definition? Uh huh......... Granted, this is one example, but you should go do a search of completed listings for BGS and PSA 9 Derek Jeter 1993 SP. Larger sample size in that grade for the card. On a side note, I also only looked at completed auctions and not BIN.

(04-30-2014, 10:34 PM)cardariffic Wrote: [ -> ]Does anyone know if SGC even grades the back side of the card? It doesnt say that they do on their grading scale page.
Yes they do.



im co-signing the entirety of ricelynn's comments
For the record, I don't really care about what company is "better" or "stricter" or whatever. I have my own preference for a grading company but that's because they fit what I'd like for my collection. With that said and aside from a few stragglers, all of my graded stuff was sold via an auction house a couple of months ago in my effort to heavily shrink down the collection and start from scratch.

I certainly wouldn't criticize someone or question their reasoning for using one grading company over another. We all have our preferences and that's what keeps the hobby going, different interests under the one umbrella of sports card collecting.
(05-01-2014, 05:15 PM)jacobystealshome Wrote: [ -> ]im co-signing the entirety of ricelynn's comments
Oh Josh, say it ain't so. Now you've turned to the dark side. haha I don't even know what rle75 said because rle75 is 1 of 93.
(05-02-2014, 10:07 AM)nolan5000 Wrote: [ -> ]Oh Josh, say it ain't so. Now you've turned to the dark side. haha I don't even know what rle75 said because rle75 is 1 of 93.
93 people, 1 common denominator. Pretty sure the problem doesn't lie with the 93 of us.
(05-01-2014, 02:56 PM)ricelynnevans75 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, since these are "plain hard facts", I'm assuming you've asked "most" of the people that grade cards with PSA why they do so? Because, you know, facts require things like actual evidence and stuff. Secondly, read what you typed. If a grading company has a history of grading softer and they are cheaper, why would someone submit to them knowing they are receiving inferior quality and, in turn, why would people pay the prices they do for such inferior quality?


I'm pretty sure I didn't state that you said "ALL" PSA graders fit the description. And again, "most". You'd have to get a pretty good sample size of PSA graders to ask in order to make that assertion valid.


I'm pretty sure I could. Loads of people do this between the various grading companies. Secondly, if BGS IS stricter/tougher/whatever, why would someone purchase a PSA graded card in the first place only to submit to BGS if it's "supposedly" going to come back at a lesser grade anyway or, at most, equal to the PSA grade? Doesn't sound like a very economic shopper to me.


You should re-read what I said. I said, and I quote, "The numbers given by any grading company are meaningless without a definition". This was in response to why people compare a PSA 10 and a BGS 9.5, which are assigned a grade based on the definitions applied to the grade which in this case is Gem Mint. However, now that you've acknowledged the definitions, I'm curious why you would then turn around and compare a PSA 10 to a BGS 10 since the definitions are vastly different, much more so than comparing a PSA 10 and BGS 9.5. To go further, even the definitions are meaningless unless they are accurately applied to the card based on the definitions/standards.


Again, application of the standards. And yes, I realize all grading companies make errors.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Topps-Chrom...SS:US:1123


You know this for a fact how exactly? Oh, this must be all those people you asked. Here's a hint, just because that's what you believe does not make it fact.


Again, application of the stipulations. It means more? Based on what the definition? Uh huh......... Granted, this is one example, but you should go do a search of completed listings for BGS and PSA 9 Derek Jeter 1993 SP. Larger sample size in that grade for the card. On a side note, I also only looked at completed auctions and not BIN.


Yes they do.

I could go and disect each and every one of your comments as you did on my posting. But, Im not going to do that because you keep trying to divert the point of my posting. Heres my main point once again, the majority of COLLECTORS grade with BGS, while the majority of GRADERS (people who are in it for the sole purpose of making money) grade with PSA. Im not talking about buying or selling or anything else. Its plain and simple. I need no evidence or study to prove this. The proof is in the pudding. There is nothing to argue, its just the way things are. There will always be a company willing to give better grades for a cheaper price. There is a REASON BGS has made a name for themselves in the grading world. That reason is trust. If you or anyone else really feal the need to defend PSA or the long line of other grading companies that try to emulate what BGS does for less money and a cheaper product you need to take a hard long look at the reasons why. What would your reasons be for grading with PSA or some other company, Rice75?

As far as the questions you asked me, I dont think youre properly understanding what it is that I am saying. First off I would NEVER suggest taking a PSA graded card and sending that into Beckett to see what you get back. I can however understand how someone would desire their PSA 10 to be a BGS 10. Look at the comparison of prices between ANY BGS 10 graded card and ANY same card graded "10" by PSA. You will see the cold, hard facts I am talking about. The whole issue that I have which Ive stated before and will state again is that PSA 10's are NOT equal to a BGS 10. Furthermore, it is decietful and IMO false advertising to slap a 10 grade on something and then just lower your standards from others. Some one who does not know this FACT could be easily duped into buying an inferior card and have a false belief that their PSA 10 is the same as a BGS 10. I will go so far as to say that there should be a single standard definition for all grading companies to give a 10 grading to a card. I also feel that BGS's definition is as good as it gets and should be the standard. I know this will never happen. But, those of us who know BGS's definition IS the golden standard for highest quality will continue to posses the finest graded examples available and will pay the premium prices that these examples deserve.

As well, you are either trying to side step or you are simply not understanding what I am saying about BGS 10's compared to PSA 10's. OF COURSE the definition of a 10 is what matters, and yes they are different for BGS and PSA. PSA 10's BY DEFINITION are inferior when compared to a BGS 10 DEFINITION. So, what is the point you are trying to make? I know what my point is and yes, it is a FACT. PSA grading standards are inferior to BGS standards. Therfor, any example of a PSA graded card will be an inferior card compared to the same graded score assesed by BGS.

(05-02-2014, 03:04 PM)ricelynnevans75 Wrote: [ -> ]93 people, 1 common denominator. Pretty sure the problem doesn't lie with the 93 of us.
Again, you are misunderstanding...he is saying YOU are the 1. We are the 93. Get it?
(05-26-2014, 03:02 PM)cardariffic Wrote: [ -> ]Heres my main point once again, the majority of COLLECTORS grade with BGS, while the majority of GRADERS (people who are in it for the sole purpose of making money) grade with PSA. Im not talking about buying or selling or anything else. Its plain and simple. I need no evidence or study to prove this. The proof is in the pudding.
That's great, but you still didn't answer the question. Where is your proof and/or evidence? What is the sample size that you used? What are people called who send cards into BGS? Are they also not getting cards graded? Is this not the same thing as sending your cards to another grading company? Why do people submit brand new cards to BGS and then sell on ebay ASAP? Is it because they are collectors or because they are trying to make a quick buck? If the proof is in the pudding, then surely you have the "pudding" available to show the proof no? If you are stating this as your opinion, that's great, we all have one. However, since you seem to be posting this as fact, I'll ask for the evidence/proof. Of which, you have yet to provide any beyond you essentially saying "because I said so".

(05-26-2014, 03:02 PM)cardariffic Wrote: [ -> ]There is nothing to argue, its just the way things are. There will always be a company willing to give better grades for a cheaper price. There is a REASON BGS has made a name for themselves in the grading world. That reason is trust. If you or anyone else really feal the need to defend PSA or the long line of other grading companies that try to emulate what BGS does for less money and a cheaper product you need to take a hard long look at the reasons why. What would your reasons be for grading with PSA or some other company, Rice75?
Just as, there is a reason why other grading companies have made a name for themselves. To believe that "trust" is the reason that some choose BGS/BVG and others go with other companies for other reasons, without any solid evidence and/or proof, is great, just don't state it as fact but go with what it actually is, your opinion. If you actually read and paid attention to my posts, you would see I'm not defending any grading company. I use a different grading company because out of all the grading companies, I trust their ability, like the way the card presents in the holder, and like the slab overall. BUT, that's why I use that company, because it's what fits me. It doesn't make it right or wrong, doesn't make be better than others who don't use them, and doesn't make more more or less of a collector. It's just my own personal preference for my part in the hobby.

(05-26-2014, 03:02 PM)cardariffic Wrote: [ -> ]As far as the questions you asked me, I dont think youre properly understanding what it is that I am saying. First off I would NEVER suggest taking a PSA graded card and sending that into Beckett to see what you get back. I can however understand how someone would desire their PSA 10 to be a BGS 10. Look at the comparison of prices between ANY BGS 10 graded card and ANY same card graded "10" by PSA. You will see the cold, hard facts I am talking about. The whole issue that I have which Ive stated before and will state again is that PSA 10's are NOT equal to a BGS 10. Furthermore, it is decietful and IMO false advertising to slap a 10 grade on something and then just lower your standards from others. Some one who does not know this FACT could be easily duped into buying an inferior card and have a false belief that their PSA 10 is the same as a BGS 10. I will go so far as to say that there should be a single standard definition for all grading companies to give a 10 grading to a card. I also feel that BGS's definition is as good as it gets and should be the standard. I know this will never happen. But, those of us who know BGS's definition IS the golden standard for highest quality will continue to posses the finest graded examples available and will pay the premium prices that these examples deserve.
Again, why are you comparing a BGS 10 and a PSA 10? They are two totally different grades. For the simple reason that you apparently can't get beyond the number 10, I'll just assume that you don't even understand the grading scales of any other company beyond BGS. PSA was along well before BGS. So why did BGS go with a higher grade? Oh yeah, to make themselves stand out, possibly make more money, and this is all because each grading company is a BUSINESS and are out to make a profit. However, they weren't even the first grading company to use "Pristine" as a grade. Quite frankly, I'm not even sure who was but I do know that SGC came out before BGS and SGC used a 1-100 scale. So, would that make an SGC 100 a more desirable card than a BGS 10 because it's a higher number? You seem to flip back and forth between your posts as if you don't even believe what you yourself are saying. Additionally, a definition is great and all, but if it's not applied as stated, the definition is useless.

(05-26-2014, 03:02 PM)cardariffic Wrote: [ -> ]As well, you are either trying to side step or you are simply not understanding what I am saying about BGS 10's compared to PSA 10's. OF COURSE the definition of a 10 is what matters, and yes they are different for BGS and PSA. PSA 10's BY DEFINITION are inferior when compared to a BGS 10 DEFINITION. So, what is the point you are trying to make? I know what my point is and yes, it is a FACT. PSA grading standards are inferior to BGS standards. Therfor, any example of a PSA graded card will be an inferior card compared to the same graded score assesed by BGS.
Holy cow, a PSA 10 is "Gem Mint" and a BGS 10 is "Pristine". A BGS 9.5 is "Gem Mint". Why in the world are you trying to compare a PSA 10 and a BGS 10?

(05-26-2014, 03:02 PM)cardariffic Wrote: [ -> ]Again, you are misunderstanding...he is saying YOU are the 1. We are the 93. Get it?
Congratulations, you've just proven to all that you have no concept of reading comprehension. His post of "I don't even know what rle75 said because rle75 is 1 of 93" means I'm part of the group of 93. If you don't understand that simple statement, then I now understand why you can't get past a number combined with a definition and how they are actually applied.
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