[stormfan7]

J-Rob7---I would assume you are talking about Kadafi? He was probably the best of the 'Lawz till he was gunned down a couple months after 'Pac was kil...ahhhh.......shot.

Mopreme Shakur was Pac's cousin and he is no longer with them. Young Noble, EDI Mean, and Kastro are the only three remaining from the originals. Being a fan, of course I am going to disagree with you, so that is not worth the time to make an argument:roll: But, the reason the Outlawz are who they are is because of their different style and the westcoast 'thug life' mentality.

I woulnd't want them changing their style or what they do just so they can be the next sell-outs like Gay-Z, T.I., 1/2 dollar & the rest of G-UNOT, etc. They have sold the most copies of any Independent Record Label, so they must be doing something right!

I do have to disagree with you saying that Pac had all of the same rhymes. Why do you think he is called the most influential rapper of all-time? It is because his rhymes actually had to do with relevant issues....sorry I am ranting, but there is not one rapper out there today that could even come close to Pac....possibly Nas?

Don't get me wrong, he wasn't the best lyrcist....that crown IMO goes to Big Pun (Wayne and Em are close), but to say that Pac just rapped about "Thug Life" is insane...

[markcards]

I usually don't flame on here, but I absolutely detest rap. I know those who are into it will tell you it has some kind of social value, but to me it's total BS.

In the interest of fairness, I listen mostly to metal, and many of THOSE lyrics are BS too. If I like the MUSIC, then it's cool to me. The lyrics take a backseat to music to me. And as for the music in rap? If you can program some crap on a computer, steal samples, and synch it with a beat box, there you go. There's no actual musical ability because they're not playing instruments.

[shaft478]

On Pac's website and to his family members he might be one the most influential rappers of all time. As far being Thug Life, that's what he primarirly talked about. That's why he was killed. He was a self-proclaimed "Thug". He used the thug image to sell records but I don't believe that's what he truly was. He was an artist and a total sweetheart when it came to women. The whole thug thing was an image created to move his career as a rapper to the next level.

I like Pac, but that's one of the reasons I don't respect him is that he used a fake persona to get ahead. Guys like Biggie, Andre 3k, Jay-Z, and even Wayne never came across to me as using a fake persona.

Pun was dope, I agree there. He's extremely underrated and I'll admit I've never given him a fair chance. But I've heard his stuff and he spits some dope lyrics.

[J-Rob7]

stormfan7 Wrote:J-Rob7---I would assume you are talking about Kadafi? He was probably the best of the 'Lawz till he was gunned down a couple months after 'Pac was kil...ahhhh.......shot.

Mopreme Shakur was Pac's cousin and he is no longer with them. Young Noble, EDI Mean, and Kastro are the only three remaining from the originals. Being a fan, of course I am going to disagree with you, so that is not worth the time to make an argument:roll: But, the reason the Outlawz are who they are is because of their different style and the westcoast 'thug life' mentality.

I woulnd't want them changing their style or what they do just so they can be the next sell-outs like Gay-Z, T.I., 1/2 dollar & the rest of G-UNOT, etc. They have sold the most copies of any Independent Record Label, so they must be doing something right!

I do have to disagree with you saying that Pac had all of the same rhymes. Why do you think he is called the most influential rapper of all-time? It is because his rhymes actually had to do with relevant issues....sorry I am ranting, but there is not one rapper out there today that could even come close to Pac....possibly Nas?

Don't get me wrong, he wasn't the best lyrcist....that crown IMO goes to Big Pun (Wayne and Em are close), but to say that Pac just rapped about "Thug Life" is insane...

I totally agree with you on 2Pac! I think anyone who says "all his lyrics were the same" listened to the Makaveli tapes only, because right before he died, he recorded a TON of material that all reflected a similar angry mentality. If you check when these tracks were recorded, they were all in a brief window after he was released from prison. Since most of the leaked acapellas of his are from this time, these are the lyrics that get rehashed in remixes a lot. The tracks that have strictly owned masters by Death Row are the more introspective tracks, and Suge is smart to hold them because they hold some serious value.

Not that I don't like the Makaveli era, but he never got to evolve with it - it debuted, he recorded a TON of angry tracks, and he was killed before he got to take the next step. He has just as much introspective material, you just won't come across it as easily nowadays. By the end of his life, Pac WAS a thug, but it was of his own creation. Most fans agree that he dug his own grave with his actions, but would he be the legend he is now? Would Ozzy Osbourne be a legend if he didn't go crazy with drugs for so long? Like I said earlier, image is BIG, and if you can make quality music to back it up, you're golden!

But Shaft, for the record, Biggie was one of the most plastic, fake rappers out there. This guy was PATHETIC until 2Pac took him under his wing, and when Pac took the heat for Biggie's unmarked gun that was found (2Pac said it was his to protect Biggie), Biggie never contacted Pac in jail and stole the formula for Pac's next CD while he was locked up and unable to do it. And of course, then there's the whole affilaition with Puffy, who set up that '94 shooting, but that's a whole can of worms there :lol:

[stormfan7]

shaft478 Wrote:On Pac's website and to his family members he might be one the most influential rappers of all time. As far being Thug Life, that's what he primarirly talked about. That's why he was killed. He was a self-proclaimed "Thug". He used the thug image to sell records but I don't believe that's what he truly was. He was an artist and a total sweetheart when it came to women. The whole thug thing was an image created to move his career as a rapper to the next level.

I like Pac, but that's one of the reasons I don't respect him is that he used a fake persona to get ahead. Guys like Biggie, Andre 3k, Jay-Z, and even Wayne never came across to me as using a fake persona.

Pun was dope, I agree there. He's extremely underrated and I'll admit I've never given him a fair chance. But I've heard his stuff and he spits some dope lyrics.

That is the statement right there. In all reality he made two "Thug Life" albums....Thug Life: Volume One and All Eyez On Me. Especially with AEOM, that was a different Pac...but of course he wrote many of those songs after the whole Piggie situation and after he got shot. Many of the songs from the Makaveli album were wrote while he was in jail and that is why they have such a different, deeper, darker side of Pac than the other albums.

Going back to his respect and affection to women, he made many songs about them and that was another side that wasn't "Thug Life" and his early CD's were attacking governmental issues...so he had many different motives and that's why he is/was so influential.

Piggie is the most fake rapper out there...he tried to copy Pac's style and acted like it was his own. Same with Gay-Z...he copied others' styles and pushed it off on his own and then he turned 'pop' so of course everyone loves him. Yeah, as you can tell...I'm full 'Pac and Westside and absolutely hate Piggie, Gay-Z, Punk Daddy, etc. :evil:

[Michael Griffin #27]

[J-Rob7]

stormfan7 Wrote:

shaft478 Wrote:On Pac's website and to his family members he might be one the most influential rappers of all time. As far being Thug Life, that's what he primarirly talked about. That's why he was killed. He was a self-proclaimed "Thug". He used the thug image to sell records but I don't believe that's what he truly was. He was an artist and a total sweetheart when it came to women. The whole thug thing was an image created to move his career as a rapper to the next level.

I like Pac, but that's one of the reasons I don't respect him is that he used a fake persona to get ahead. Guys like Biggie, Andre 3k, Jay-Z, and even Wayne never came across to me as using a fake persona.

Pun was dope, I agree there. He's extremely underrated and I'll admit I've never given him a fair chance. But I've heard his stuff and he spits some dope lyrics.

That is the statement right there. In all reality he made two "Thug Life" albums....Thug Life: Volume One and All Eyez On Me. Especially with AEOM, that was a different Pac...but of course he wrote many of those songs after the whole Piggie situation and after he got shot. Many of the songs from the Makaveli album were wrote while he was in jail and that is why they have such a different, deeper, darker side of Pac than the other albums.

Going back to his respect and affection to women, he made many songs about them and that was another side that wasn't "Thug Life" and his early CD's were attacking governmental issues...so he had many different motives and that's why he is/was so influential.

Piggie is the most fake rapper out there...he tried to copy Pac's style and acted like it was his own. Same with Gay-Z...he copied others' styles and pushed it off on his own and then he turned 'pop' so of course everyone loves him. Yeah, as you can tell...I'm full 'Pac and Westside and absolutely hate Piggie, Gay-Z, Punk Daddy, etc. :evil:

Very well said! We're speaking the same language here, very cool!

[rmflaherty]

actually have read most of this thread over the past few days, and surprised that there have been alot of good assesments and interesting perspectives without getting into a total flame fest :lol:

i'll try to keep it short, as if i wanted to get into everything touched upon here it'd take forever, and at this point i just accept todays teenager views "hip-hop" differently then someone who is in there late 20's or older that grew up and evolved along with the music from it's inception

as for Lil'Wayne...i think he's taken the Oasis approach, i remember them saying if you tell everyone you're the greatest band in the world 50% of the people will believe you :lol:
and it seems that perception has kind of snowballed....i actually was just checking out some of his newer stuff to not comment misinformed, and honestly i can see why people like it (espesially compared to what else is out there) just IMO still far from the best ever

also thought id share a quote i found yesterday in a paper that had a review of his new cd....as i think it's true and i think it explains the vast difference of opinions toward him:

" Lil Wayne isn't necessarily the greatest rapper alive, but he's definintly the most inconsistent. Depending on the verse and the song, he can sound like a track-devouring force of nature or a stoned amateur fumbaling his way through the english langauge. Both Wayne's show up throughout his feverishly anticipated new album....."

sorry that turned out long anyway lol, but like i said i think that quote sums it up...as those that love him will point toward the songs where he is described as a "force of nature" while his critics will have plenty of ammunition as well, but i guess thats what happens when you release so much music