[rmpaq5]

So in what year did MLB come out and say steroids was banned from the game? I'm like rad_1205 in that I quit baseball and collecting in 94 and didn't come back until 2006 when Albert Pujols was Mr. MVP.

I think it is just part of the era and has to be accepted along with the numbers. I consider it cheating now just like a corked bat and a pitcher doctoring the ball.

Speaking of which didn't Gaylord Perry get in the HOF with dortoring the ball? We don't rip him or the stats he put up.

I'm with you on the era and getting into the hall. My point with the video link, and the since mentioned glove slap, is the guys a (choose appropriate expletive in mind here). Of course being a (choose appropriate expletive in mind here) doesn't preclude from the hall either...see Cobb, Ty.

[Hofcollector]

So in what year did MLB come out and say steroids was banned from the game? I'm like rad_1205 in that I quit baseball and collecting in 94 and didn't come back until 2006 when Albert Pujols was Mr. MVP.

I think it is just part of the era and has to be accepted along with the numbers. I consider it cheating now just like a corked bat and a pitcher doctoring the ball.

Speaking of which didn't Gaylord Perry get in the HOF with dortoring the ball? We don't rip him or the stats he put up.

I don't know if he did or not. There were never any CRIMINAL investigations into it. If he did, yeah that's shady. However, he did not take banned substances to genetically mutate himself into a freak of nature. Btw, steroids were banned in 1991.

[sshissler]

Incorrect. He did an interview with Barbara Walters (I think) in like '05 in which he had admitted to using steroids while on the Rangers, since 2001. He went on to say that he lied about it when asked because he didn't believe he was doing them because he couldn't even be honest with himself. That means, even if he wasnt lying (which he was), only his Seattle hr's would have been legit for a grand total of 189 in 7 years. As for separating his legit hr's from his PED hr's, that's irrelevant at this point. We can't seperate his lies from the truth and being that he admitted using PED's from 2001 on, his own version of the truth gives him ONLY 189. Far from a hofer.

The book A-Rod by Selena Roberts suggests he was probably using all the way back in High School, so all of them are null and void in my book!

[crossada]

I don't know if he did or not. There were never any CRIMINAL investigations into it. If he did, yeah that's shady. However, he did not take banned substances to genetically mutate himself into a freak of nature. Btw, steroids were banned in 1991.

Well he did get suspended for it.
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/cheaters...ayers.html

[Hofcollector]

The book A-Rod by Selena Roberts suggests he was probably using all the way back in High School, so all of them are null and void in my book!

Yup. That's what I was inferring but the op was suggesting he should be taken at his word. Given that his admitted use was from 2001 on (which no one believes) I was giving hypothetical numbers if he was in fact telling the truth. Just to be clear, I don't have any issues with anyone who enjoyed watching the steroid guys. If they made the game more exciting for you, I can't challenge that. If you chose to collect them, that's cool too. I will not remain quiet though when things like "these guys saved the game", because they didn't. The common argument is that baseball was on it's way out. It wasn't. The ratings were down but even at the declining rate they would have remained relevant for another twenty years. But, that wasn't ever going to happen. For the first time in MLB's history they were challenged by another sport, the NBA. More appropriately Michael Jordan. Basketball went global. Michael Jordan was the most recognizable face in the world in the 90's. That isn't a made up statistic, that was fact. The NBA had evolved into must see TV with the Chicago Dynasty at the forefront, and with the season ending in June, the MLB took a backseat. The things happening in basketball with the abilities of players were new and exciting. But, that ran it's course. You think it's a coincidence that Jordan's last championship was in '98 and the MLB ratings took off after that? No. They dismantled the Bulls and basketball became a joke. The "talent" that was coming out of high school and college was producing a horrible product, and still is. Football became America's number one sport but with the efforts of removing all of the violence and big hits from the game it's popularity will take a nose dive in the next 5 -10 years. Baseball is what it always has been, one of the most popular games in the world. You can't tell me because of the strike in '94 that baseball was going to shrivel up and die four years later. It had competition. That's all.

---

Well he did get suspended for it.
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/cheaters...ayers.html

Well, there you go. He was punished. Your talking apples and oranges. While it may be a slippery slope, he doctored the occasional pitch to strike a guy out. The PED guys altered there entire genetic make up and ability thus affecting every single play they were ever involved in. This wasn't "them" playing.

[wordsense]

I'm not condoning steroid use and I will certainly never let A-Rod off the hook, but the ease at which everyone ignores the use of amphetamines in baseball, dating back to at least the 1950s, is interesting. Baseball is a sport in which they play 162-game schedules in a span of about 180 days or so (then playoffs on top of that), and if you think speed isn't/hasn't been involved for quite some time, then that's just naive. It's no different than the average American pumping themselves full of coffee and other caffeine or sugar-filled products to get them through their work day and week. You can condemn these players all you want and suggest you yourself would never "cheat" to win or to be better or to just get by, but you're lying to yourself.

[Hofcollector]

I'm not condoning steroid use and I will certainly never let A-Rod off the hook, but the ease at which everyone ignores the use of amphetamines in baseball, dating back to at least the 1950s, is interesting. Baseball is a sport in which they play 162-game schedules in a span of about 180 days or so (then playoffs on top of that), and if you think speed isn't/hasn't been involved for quite some time, then that's just naive. It's no different than the average American pumping themselves full of coffee and other caffeine or sugar-filled products to get them through their work day and week. You can condemn these players all you want and suggest you yourself would never "cheat" to win or to be better or to just get by, but you're lying to yourself.

I believe if your caught using amphetamines (without a prescription) you should get banned as well. However, no one really talks about it anymore because it isn't as big an issue as it was in the past. The athletes today are on health regimens, have personal trainers and condition themselves like they never have before. Occasionally you get an idiot like Crush who forgets to renew the prescription with the league (that he probably never needed), but that's about it. As for the coffee/amphetamine comparison, amphetamines are a controlled substance. They have some serious health risks. I'll drink my cup of coffee in the morning, but I'm not popping any pills to focus.

[crossada]

Ironically Willie Mays name has been brought up in the day with Amphetamines lol.

And what the man said about Alex Rodriguez.
"Congratulations to Alex Rodriguez on his 660th home run," Mays said. "Milestones in baseball are meant to be broken and I wish him continued success throughout his career."

A true class act even if Alex has proven not to be imo

[rmpaq5]

The athletes today are on health regimens, have personal trainers and condition themselves like they never have before.

It is amazing that if you just go back to the 70s, Guy Lafleur was lighting up smokes on the Canadiens bench while in between shifts.

[Hofcollector]

It is amazing that if you just go back to the 70s, Guy Lafleur was lighting up smokes on the Canadiens bench while in between shifts.

That's the type of thing I'm talking about when I say the modern athlete is far superior to those of even 25 years ago..