[SkylerDean0526]

Apparently both come out on same day, June 25, with Prestige tentative for the following week July 2. What is left everyones thoughts on these 2 (3) products....are you focusing on just 1 after sampling all 3? What do you think will have better overall value in box and then on secondary market? Is Hot Rookies going to have on card autos or stickers? I'm really not impressed with Score this year at all, and I will not be buying any of it. Last year's Score was excellent imo, especially the jumbo boxes and the value you got out of them. I know Hot Rookies is more for hobby and Score 14 is retail directed, and I'm not sure I really like the idea of splitting it in 2.

Topps products are notoriously stingy with "star" signers and usually have low production run or sp the hell out of the major players (2012 strata clear cuts comes to my mind)....which is cool in one way cause it doesn't flood the market and keeps demand up, but at the same time if I'm paying 120 bucks a box for 4 autographs, I don't want to get 3 undrafted rookie autos who have a 96 percent chance of not playing as they would be 4th or 5th string at best (and in some cases practice squad), dudes who get cut the first few weeks (I know it's hard to tell when preseason hasn't really begun and it's June otas), and like a 5th round defensive player (I love defensive players alot too, usually have more longevity than wr, rb, te, etc) or 3rd string qb. I'm sorry but defense is different in the NFL, it's not College Blitz anymore ( see Manti Teo, Eric Fisher). I also don't like the drawn bowman design with 00 for numbers, however I do like the chrome refractor technology and on card autos.

I also want to see more innovation (not adding another swatch to an "event worn" like Sterling is doing this year for the base relic cards) with relics,mem, and autos. Def need to slow down the parallels as well, some sets had like 10+ parallels not including mem and auto parallels-especially auto parallels with stickers-they aggravate me so much. Panini prizm was ruined this year with 2-3 exclusive prizms for the jumbo boxes, the value packs for walmart and target with red, blue pulsars, and camo. There needs to besomething other than the current type of parallels, refractors, prizms, etc. It's just diluting the market.

As for relic and auto innovation id like to see mkre Dates and info about the games the relics are from would be cool and I know there's a few insert sets out there like that. Also, game worn stuff with dirt, grass, rips, stains, battle tattered relics would be dope and again there are some sets that do that as well. How about actual used ticket stub autos from home and away games? Playoff and Pro Bowl relics?Or redemptions for different nfl experiences or games? Relics from milestone, record setting, record breaking, career achievement, etc games? Eye black strip relics ( not the pain, but the custom sticker type some players have, tongues tags and logos from game worn shoes, game used tape from hands and gloves, velcro logos from gloves, various types of sideline game used gear (sideline hats,do-rags, pieces of cooler with logos, water bottle logos, improvised scrap paper drawn plays or doodles etc) penalty flags (I can see a Bad Boys insert set based on penalty flags-Dashon Goldson Ndamukong Suh would totally be featured), I really liked Momentums Studs insert set now add 1 parallel to it-autographed Platinum Stud versions limited to like 3 or 5. It'd be funny to get some of Andre Ellingtons dreads as a game used relic after what's his name ripped a chunk out of them. They could pull a twist like they did with Panini Prizm soccer and do a Fans of the Game Auto set featuring celebrities, pop icons, musicians, athletes from other sports a la Allen and Ginter and Goodwin Champion, political figures, etc anyone who's a fan and in the public eye. I can even see a memorabilia version featuring celebrity fan worn jerseys (at games they went to), tee shirts etc related to the sport or team , favorite team, favorite player with dual auto versions which would be on card of course., Lol how about and Injured Reserve relic set featuring swatches of outer pieces casts of players who were injured, would be weird and pretty neat as well.

Its a slap in the face to spend 200 bucks on a box(pack) of cards and receive really gorgeous cards but with sticker auto or "relics" numbered in the 1000s (finest, platinum, sterling not including the parallels patches and relics) to me it kills the value and experience. Like how many jerseys and shirts do these guys wear at events like nflpa rookie premiere and other events? Change your jersey after every photo, have a box of 100 in front of you and you pick them up and put them to your chest and put it down? Next, the players will just have to look at them to be considered "event used".

Anyways, that's pretty much my questions, opinions, thoughts, ideas and rant on cards. Besides whats everyones opinion on the 2 (3) boxes I mentioned, whar would you guys like to see? What types of memorabilia would you like to get? Types of Autos? Inserts, etc....

[savagenate]

I'd like to see less cards, like you mentioned. I mean, guys have over 1k cards a year now...insane! Make less parallels, 5 colors is plenty! I think there are way too many auto's and memorabilia stuff out there...it'd be nice to see them cut back some. I like your idea of the "Bad Boys" collection! That would be awesome!

[Harv72b]

It's a delicate line for the card companies to walk. On the one hand, collectors (us) demand limited edition cards, the more limited the better. But on the other hand, if you make it possible for every collector to own /10 or /5 cards (to say nothing of 1-of-1s) then where is the value in them?

The core of the problem isn't so much "event worn" "memorabilia" or too many parallels, it's just too damn many sets. When you've got two companies putting out a dozen brands each every season, it's overwhelming. Cut down on that considerably: 1 high end, 1 mid-range, and 1 retail-focused set would be just fine. With fewer sets to produce, you can focus more on the quality of each set & on getting true game-used swatches, producing limited runs which are actually difficult to obtain, and drive up wholesale prices (demand) while reducing your own production costs. Besides which, if you limit the supply enough that an autograph card is worth more than pocket change then you might actually keep a few more of the brick & mortar card shops afloat.

To answer your main question, I pre-ordered three boxes of Hot Rookies simply because, at that time, it was slated to be the first set released from the major companies. I had planned to pre-order two boxes of Bowman as well, but then DACW took down the pre-order option for it so here I am. Historically I do like Bowman products simply because they're still relatively close to traditional sets: not nearly so many parallels & inserts, and a pretty solid checklist including lots of "secondary" rookies. Panini has become my favorite over the past couple years, though, because I much prefer (most of) their card designs. At any rate, when all is said & done I'll wind up buying both products.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, building off of your rant point, I added all the non 1-of-1 C.J. Mosley cards to my Wants just now. Keeping in mind that only a few 2014 sets have come out & he hasn't even suited up for a practice in full pads yet, there are already more than 50 unique C.J. Mosley items available, including parallels and such. Ridiculous.

[savagenate]

No kidding. Just for plates, there's 4 for the base, 4 for an auto/patch, for every brand. There's a 1/1 for every parallel set out there. And like Harv said, way too many releases that all look the same! Not much difference in the Topps, Topps Chrome, Topps Finest, Topps Platinum. Patch cards are cool, but why not just do away with those and stick with patch/autos? Triple threads has so many variations of base, then the patches, and then the patch/autos it's ridiculous...

[Harv72b]

The problem with this hobby in a nutshell:

Haloti Ngata. Defensive tackle, 1st round draft pick in 2006, five Pro Bowls, almost certainly a future Hall of Famer. There are just under 600 items of his listed in Beckett's online price guide, or about 75 cards/year on average (although more than half of his cards were printed in 2006).

Lardarius Webb. Cornerback, 3rd round draft pick in 2009. Top starter at his position for the Ravens, widely considered among the best young corners in the league. There are fewer than 60 items listed in Beckett.

Aaron Mellette. Wide receiver, 7th round draft pick in 2013. Made a few plays in preseason games last year then hurt his knee and spent his entire rookie season on injured reserve. 50/50 at best to even make the 53-man roster this year. There are more than 400 unique entries for him in Beckett.

I understand that offensive players create higher demand in the secondary marketplace, and that the average fan/collector doesn't know what to do about a player who doesn't have some sort of "yards per" stat and/or one who intentionally hits footballs with his foot, but when did the allegedly insatiable demand for rookie autographs & "event worn memorabilia" grow so much that a "team set" in most current products consists of 3-4 veterans and half a dozen players with no NFL experience? When are all the hobbyists going to realize that the vast majority of these /10 goldfractorrainbows they're buying $450 boxes to get will be completely worthless within a year, because the player never made in the NFL and nobody's even trying to build complete sets of those?

I'm still (slowly) working on my complete set of 1972 Topps Football, and it's so refreshing to see how they did it back then. 351 cards, including defensive players, offensive linemen, kickers, punters...the works. Rookies who had actually played in real NFL games. No parallels or inserts using the same picture on every "variation", just a few subsets which dug out new photos & followed interesting themes ("in action", "pro bowl", "league leaders", etc). Card backs which contained stats & information about the players on the front, instead of congratulating you on getting a "genuine event-worn relic" guaranteed to be from no specific event.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as guilty as anyone else for supercollecting Mellette and plucking up all his parallels, I'm just really starting to question why it's so important to grab five different autographed copies of the same card, just because one of them is black, another is silver & numbered to 99, yet another is blue and numbered to 25, still another is green & one of only 10 made, and one more version is red and limited to 5...and that's only if you opt not to chase the grandaddy of them all, the one & only gold-colored card. If the only real difference between the "parallels" is going to be the color of the foil, why not just make them all the same color & randomly stamp a little giraffe or something onto a couple dozen? Or just snip out a specific piece of a few cards, call them "die cut", and be on your merry way? Or do like one eBayer I saw, and scribble "murderer" with a magic marker onto an Aaron Hernandez card and sell it as a 1-of-1? (I have to give some props to the kid, I lol'd & very nearly bid on it out of principle)

I don't know, I just think somebody is missing out on a potential goldmine by not putting out an "old-fashioned", no frills set of basic cards depicting 800 or so of the nearly 2000 players who'll suit up for a regular season NFL game this year, at some point after the season (when we know which rookies are worth making cards of). If they have to be a bit devious about it, take a lesson from the Topps sets of old and randomly short-print a few dozen cards so people will keep buying the packs & chasing after their sets. Maybe even do something truly revolutionary and one again price them low enough that the average kid can afford to buy a pack or two at the local mini mart (and so the average mini mart can afford to stock them).

And that, boys and girls, is how you rant. Tune in for my next installment, when I track down the root of all this evil and then yell at clouds.

[savagenate]

I agree Harv...I started super collecting a couple of guys and am now wondering if it's worth it. It's a lot of fun, and some sets are lots of fun to complete. I completed the Crown Royale base set for Vontaze Burfict, and it looks awesome...then again, there were only 1 base and 5 parallels I think. But someone like Johnathan Franklin has over 1500 cards from his rookie year, and may not even contribute on the current Packers roster. But I guess I'm guilty of enjoying the chase, and shelling out money just for the enjoyment...even though I may be hating myself in a few years :p
It'd be cool if there were less sub-brands, less autos, less memorabilia, and if the parallels had a few different colors, and different pictures on them. Granted, this would help the avg collector and make it more affordable, and thus, less lucrative for the card companies, so it'll never happen...craziness is Bowman 2013...3 different versions of Parallels...regular, rainbow, and ice. They all have the same picture, but have a different facing...the Ice version would've been cool on it's own...3 is too much!

[Harv72b]

craziness is Bowman 2013...3 different versions of Parallels...regular, rainbow, and ice. They all have the same picture, but have a different facing...the Ice version would've been cool on it's own...3 is too much!

Oh, yeah...between parallels, inserts, and autos there are 28 "different" Aaron Mellette cards in 2013 Bowman. The tricky part is that most of them are valued under $3, which makes it difficult to get them off the Bay w/o overpaying between card cost & shipping. And yes, every single one of them has the exact same picture, just different colored borders.

[alstott9adams]

Less cards

[gjhobbs]

I understand this totally.

I collect a few players, but my main PC is Marshawn Lynch. I've looked at a lot of his stuff, and each year he has hundreds of cards. There is no way I am going to chase 3/4 of those as they just aren't worth it to me right now. If I get them it's great, but if not oh well.

I've tried to focus my main PC for some players to true RC's that are called that by Beckett. Those are more fun to find and more of a challenge for me. Marshawn Lynch has either 39 or 40 depending upon how it's viewed, and I'm at about 90% almost now.

As for defensive players, same thing applies. More cards for offensive players, and way less for defensive players. Sucks as I'm more of a defensive player collector myself. Good part is I can find more cards easier, and collect them without having to search for 10,000 cards.

Jesse Williams comes to mind for the Seahawks. He has about 100 cards, but most of them are parallel and 1/1's.

[holydiverkse]

I would love to see one company have the guts to make a 5 way offensive line auto card for the teams each year. I mean you low number the set to /10-/25 for each team and than put them in one your products that is known for interesting autos like a Contenders or Limited so its not in an overly expensive product. Not to mention its an auto of the entire offensive line not just one player who would not have loved the 2007 Giants offensive line that was praised after the season for great play. and it is also great for team set collectors because you get your teams o-line in one shot. Even a dual autograph with the punter and kicker I would have loved to pull a Feagles/Tynes autograph back when they were with the Giants. I mean Tynes is embedded into history for kicking the Giants into two Super Bowls for heaven sakes.

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also bring back Topps Total where you can gear it towards the team collector like they did they had some absurd combo cards.

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I keep on thinking of more stuff jeez. Also do what 2000 Fleer did with some of the later picks and just put two rookies on one card. Do not waste space to have three cards of three 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks.