[Harv72b]

The one thing i would reply to that is: Is it better for the collector to be happy and able to afford buying a bunch of different product and getting what they want, or people selling to make a bunch of money? As a collector, I can understand that it's really nice to be able to buy a bunch of Packers stuff for relatively cheap, but on the flip side, if I get non-Packers stuff, it's nice to be able to sell/trade it to people who want it and are willing to part with a nice card or some money.... I think it boils down to that I agree with your sentiment that there are too many sets on the market right now. Seems very similar to the early to late 90's where everything was way overproduced and the market was flooded with a bunch of crap cards. Except now the cards are (for the most part) really good quality. It's still super saturated, and it's amazing that I got a Jordy Nelson card coming this week that is a /10 numbered card, and I got it for under 11 bucks. I mean, that's GREAT for me, but a top 10 WR #d insert under 25 and people don't even bid it up much over 10 bucks? You know when that happens that there are WAY too many /10 cards of that person.

About a month ago I picked up an /5 Torrey Smith and an /25 Joe Flacco National Treasures for $3.25 (plus $2.99 s&h). Just base parallels to be fair, but still...that was so insane that I felt like I should apologize to the seller.

[duch2izback]

I just love watching someone hang on to a card and repost it a thousand times for a ridiculous price, then put it up for auction starting at that same ridiculous price, then they finally come down to earth and put it at a regular auction and don't get anywhere near the astronomical price they were asking to begin with.

It's only worth what someone will pay for it

[jplarson]

+1 to the OP!

[melcmd]

Interesting points. Two things I would add.

SOMETHING IS WORTH ONLY WHAT SOMEONE IS WILLING TO PAY FOR IT.......

This is a common comment made on all of the boards. It's not that simple. The value is relative and fluid. The value is what you agree upon at the time of the transaction. It may act as a guide for a similar purchase, but only sets the price, for that sell, at that time.

This is the nature of a collectibles market.

If a card sells for $20 several times and one buyer decides for whatever reason to pay $75 for one, it's worth $75 to that buyer.

A SELLER IS GREEDY BECAUSE THEY SET A PRICE HIGHER THAN YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY.

This leads to all kinds of ridiculous name calling on the boards.

I have overpaid often just to complete a set and to move on. When I relist an item, I never expect to make more than I paid or even to get anywhere close. I'm not going to just give it away (unless I know you) and I would like to get some of my money back.

It gets old seeing the criticism because someone doesn't like the price. As a buyer, if I see a price that I feel I'm not willing to pay, I just move on. No harm done.

I collect mostly low numbered sets and individual cards of players I grew up watching (no super collections) now.

I don't fault the flippers for what they do. I have had to pick up a rare card on occasion from one or two flippers. But that's for rare cards. Just because they set a price doesn't mean we can't control our own spending habits.

[gjpoll1]

Interesting points. Two things I would add.

SOMETHING IS WORTH ONLY WHAT SOMEONE IS WILLING TO PAY FOR IT.......

This is a common comment made on all of the boards. It's not that simple. The value is relative and fluid. The value is what you agree upon at the time of the transaction. It may act as a guide for a similar purchase, but only sets the price, for that sell, at that time.

This is the nature of a collectibles market.

If a card sells for $20 several times and one buyer decides for whatever reason to pay $75 for one, it's worth $75 to that buyer.

A SELLER IS GREEDY BECAUSE THEY SET A PRICE HIGHER THAN YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY.

This leads to all kinds of ridiculous name calling on the boards.

I have overpaid often just to complete a set and to move on. When I relist an item, I never expect to make more than I paid or even to get anywhere close. I'm not going to just give it away (unless I know you) and I would like to get some of my money back.

It gets old seeing the criticism because someone doesn't like the price. As a buyer, if I see a price that I feel I'm not willing to pay, I just move on. No harm done.

I collect mostly low numbered sets and individual cards of players I grew up watching (no super collections) now.

I don't fault the flippers for what they do. I have had to pick up a rare card on occasion from one or two flippers. But that's for rare cards. Just because they set a price doesn't mean we can't control our own spending habits.

DITTO!!

[chibearsboy]

great post and replies folks. interesting

[no1dolphan]

I just love watching someone hang on to a card and repost it a thousand times for a ridiculous price, then put it up for auction starting at that same ridiculous price, then they finally come down to earth and put it at a regular auction and don't get anywhere near the astronomical price they were asking to begin with.

It's only worth what someone will pay for it

Just look up vintagesnowmobiles on Ebay for a true laugh. He's had a BGS 9.5 1998 Best Fusion Marino / Manning atomic refractor anywhere from $3500 to $20,000 over the past year or two. My offer of $750 was obviously "lowballing" *rolling eyes*. This same guy bought a 1994 TSC Bowman's best Marino refractor psa 9 from me for ten bucks and has been trying to hock it for a hundred ever since. I wonder if he ever sells enough to cover the cost of listing?
Every single listing is 2.5 to 1000 times the actual value of the card anywhere else. This is the prime example of a real flippin' clown.

[jephthah1]

Interesting points. Two things I would add.

SOMETHING IS WORTH ONLY WHAT SOMEONE IS WILLING TO PAY FOR IT.......

This is a common comment made on all of the boards. It's not that simple. The value is relative and fluid. The value is what you agree upon at the time of the transaction. It may act as a guide for a similar purchase, but only sets the price, for that sell, at that time.

This is the nature of a collectibles market.

If a card sells for $20 several times and one buyer decides for whatever reason to pay $75 for one, it's worth $75 to that buyer.

A SELLER IS GREEDY BECAUSE THEY SET A PRICE HIGHER THAN YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY.

This leads to all kinds of ridiculous name calling on the boards.

I have overpaid often just to complete a set and to move on. When I relist an item, I never expect to make more than I paid or even to get anywhere close. I'm not going to just give it away (unless I know you) and I would like to get some of my money back.

It gets old seeing the criticism because someone doesn't like the price. As a buyer, if I see a price that I feel I'm not willing to pay, I just move on. No harm done.

I collect mostly low numbered sets and individual cards of players I grew up watching (no super collections) now.

I don't fault the flippers for what they do. I have had to pick up a rare card on occasion from one or two flippers. But that's for rare cards. Just because they set a price doesn't mean we can't control our own spending habits.

Actually, it is that simple; and your argument proves it. Reread what you wrote--you used a lot of words to essentially arrive at the conclusion that a card is only worth $20 to those not willing to pay more than that. But for the individual willing to pay $75 for the same card...well, you get the picture...a card is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If the seller believes that someone will pay more, they can take a chance and hold on to the card.

I started collecting in the mid 90's, stepped away from the hobby for about 3 years, and recently returned about 18 months ago. Even though their pricing always was, and continues to be just south of fantasy, I always used to gauge everything off Beckett as I thought it was a good "guide" to start from. Not this time around. The market WILL dictate value and worth. I really could care less what any price guide says (I rarely ever look at it until I am cataloging my items in Organize), or what any seller tells me I should pay. It is worth what I will pay them for it. If a seller disagrees, then I don't criticize...I just chuckle and watch it relist over and over and over.

However, as mentioned by GnC_Fricker in the opening post, other collectors are out there, and I have at times discovered that a card's value to me was directly correlated to how involved my opponent became in the bidding process. However, that card was still only worth what I, or my competitor(s), was willing to pay for it. That is often much higher than what Beckett says it should sell for...and that is OK. We pay what it is worth to us.

In response to your second point about sellers being greedy, I agree that many, perhaps most, are not greedy. But those who are sure leave a stain on the hobby. And, as you state (and I echoed earlier) they do not control me. I just walk away and let them do their thing.

Valuable and good discussion here.