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87-88 fleer packs
01-12-2014, 04:33 PM
Post: #1
87-88 fleer packs
I'm trying to do some research on the 87-88 fleer set. i've seen only a few old threads on this forum about these.

http://www.beckett.com/forums/thread-144...7-88+fleer
This thread discusses how a complete box, which holds just over 3 full sets, is rare to find.

http://www.beckett.com/forums/thread-153...pid2265559
This thread talks about the 86 and 87 fleer packs, how the cards might be ordered, and whether graded packs are worthwhile.

I understand that pack grades probably have little relation to the condition of the cards. Anyone here have experience with graded packs, particular from the late 80s?

I know the 86 packs are in numeric order, but i can't find a definitive answer on the 87 packs. For this set, is it possible to know the cards based on the front or back card? And if so, what is the order? Anybody know?

A few packs are advertised as having MJ showing. For others, I've contacted a few of the eBay sellers, and they all claimed they can't tell what the front/back card is. If MJ was showing, they would probably advertise it as such, but they may not be aware of the card order to know there is an MJ inside.

Completed sets:
91-92 USA: Hoops, Skybox, Impel
91-92 UD Award Winner Holograms
92-93 Topps Beam Team, TSC Beam Team, Ultra (all inserts)
93-94 TSC Beam Team, Ultra (Famous Nicknames, Inside/Outside, Rebound Kings)
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01-12-2014, 04:59 PM
Post: #2
RE: 87-88 fleer packs
You can review the various company grading standards for packs, but part of the grade should account for the centering on the top card visible. Fleer cards from 87-88 (or 86-87, 88-89 for that matter) were cut from the same lot when packed, so all cards in one pack will have almost identical centering, whether good or bad. So if the top card is 90/10 in both directions, every card in that pack will be, so a good grade should mean decent centering and that you're not just tossing your money away on off-center cards.

And yes to your second question, it's possible to know the order from the front card. For 1988-89 Fleer I know that every other card counts up by 4, and the cards in-between do as well but I couldn't give you a specific on what sequence they're in. But like packs are identical. Most auctions advertising an MJ will be the sticker, as it's definitely easier to see through the back than the front, but as far as I know you can't determine the pack collation from the sticker alone. From what I remember you can see parts of the card on the front, depending, but you're looking through wax and you can't really tell exactly what the card is. You can, however, compare the parts you can see to images or a master set, or you can split the packs into separate piles of what looks like the same card on the front and make sure you have a relatively even number of each.

Because early Fleer boxes weren't factory sealed, if you do end up buying a full box check and make sure you at least have the right number of each. Realize you may get two of one pack, four of another, so you may not get 3 exact sets. Also, keep in mind that centering was absolutely horrible for early Fleer, and box busting is more of a novelty than a means to actually make money.

If you end up buying boxes or packs, realize that the person selling them probably knows more about them than you do, and is in the business of making money. You're right that if it had an MJ, they'd advertise it as an MJ, because it's money for them. If someone had a case, being that the boxes aren't sealed, it's easy for someone to justify swapping centered packs for offcenter packs when it's their livelihood. Always buy from a reputable source and remember that patience, in this case, is a virtue.

PC: Scottie Pippen(active years), Fleer master sets (all inserts/parallels, base Fleer only), Crusade (almost everything)

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01-12-2014, 10:28 PM
Post: #3
RE: 87-88 fleer packs
The packs were staggered in numeric order in two runs from what I remember. For example, 34, 79, 35, 80, etc. If the staggered run was at the end of the set it would wrap around to the beginning, involving 132 moving to 1.

What I don't exactly remember is if the runs numbered up or down within the pack, if it went up 1 or down 1 as it happened.
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01-13-2014, 10:43 PM
Post: #4
RE: 87-88 fleer packs
(01-12-2014 04:59 PM)carrollm09 Wrote:  You can review the various company grading standards for packs, but part of the grade should account for the centering on the top card visible. Fleer cards from 87-88 (or 86-87, 88-89 for that matter) were cut from the same lot when packed, so all cards in one pack will have almost identical centering, whether good or bad. So if the top card is 90/10 in both directions, every card in that pack will be, so a good grade should mean decent centering and that you're not just tossing your money away on off-center cards.

And yes to your second question, it's possible to know the order from the front card. For 1988-89 Fleer I know that every other card counts up by 4, and the cards in-between do as well but I couldn't give you a specific on what sequence they're in. But like packs are identical. Most auctions advertising an MJ will be the sticker, as it's definitely easier to see through the back than the front, but as far as I know you can't determine the pack collation from the sticker alone. From what I remember you can see parts of the card on the front, depending, but you're looking through wax and you can't really tell exactly what the card is. You can, however, compare the parts you can see to images or a master set, or you can split the packs into separate piles of what looks like the same card on the front and make sure you have a relatively even number of each.

Because early Fleer boxes weren't factory sealed, if you do end up buying a full box check and make sure you at least have the right number of each. Realize you may get two of one pack, four of another, so you may not get 3 exact sets. Also, keep in mind that centering was absolutely horrible for early Fleer, and box busting is more of a novelty than a means to actually make money.

If you end up buying boxes or packs, realize that the person selling them probably knows more about them than you do, and is in the business of making money. You're right that if it had an MJ, they'd advertise it as an MJ, because it's money for them. If someone had a case, being that the boxes aren't sealed, it's easy for someone to justify swapping centered packs for offcenter packs when it's their livelihood. Always buy from a reputable source and remember that patience, in this case, is a virtue.

Thanks! some very good and useful points.

Completed sets:
91-92 USA: Hoops, Skybox, Impel
91-92 UD Award Winner Holograms
92-93 Topps Beam Team, TSC Beam Team, Ultra (all inserts)
93-94 TSC Beam Team, Ultra (Famous Nicknames, Inside/Outside, Rebound Kings)
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