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Fernandez, Myers win ROY
11-11-2013, 07:15 PM
Post: #11
RE: Fernandez, Myers win ROY
Over the last few years, people, including the voters, have realized that W-L records should not carry as much weight as they once did. W-L for a pitcher relies heavily on the team's offensive output, which the Marlins didn't have much, scoring the least amount of runs in all of baseball this past season. They scored 513 runs, which equates to 3.16 runs/game. Fernandez put up an ERA of 2.19, almost whole run less than what the Marlins averaged during the season.

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11-11-2013, 07:19 PM
Post: #12
RE: Fernandez, Myers win ROY
(11-11-2013 07:13 PM)rentzington Wrote:  But that's the thing impact on team isn't really part of it, and judging a pitcher on wins is about as old school as saying puig ruins he integrity of the game with his showboating


I get thinking it should be puig, really it could go either way...it would be like if trout and Harper were both in the same league up for Roy

Well, Trouty would have smoked him — out-hit him by 60 points, 8 homers and about 30 steals, LOL.

But you're actually making my point — if it is based on stats only, so be it.

Fernandez's stats were not so superior to Puig's (granted, we're talking about a pitcher vs. a hitter) that we shouldn't at least have co-ROYs.

I mean, isn't a .300 batting average comparable, stat-wise, to a sub-3.00 ERA?

They're both on the superb end of the spectrum respectively.

And aren't 19 HRs in basically two-thirds of a season comparable to roughly a little over a strikeout per inning?

Oh well, at least the Marlins won something this year.

Hopefully their cheapskate, lame a-- owner has to pay him a huge bonus, LOL
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11-11-2013, 07:28 PM
Post: #13
RE: Fernandez, Myers win ROY
(11-11-2013 07:19 PM)rjcj2017 Wrote:  Well, Trouty would have smoked him — out-hit him by 60 points, 8 homers and about 30 steals, LOL.

But you're actually making my point — if it is based on stats only, so be it.

Fernandez's stats were not so superior to Puig's (granted, we're talking about a pitcher vs. a hitter) that we shouldn't at least have co-ROYs.

I mean, isn't a .300 batting average comparable, stat-wise, to a sub-3.00 ERA?

They're both on the superb end of the spectrum respectively.

And aren't 19 HRs in basically two-thirds of a season comparable to roughly a little over a strikeout per inning?

Oh well, at least the Marlins won something this year.

Hopefully their cheapskate, lame a-- owner has to pay him a huge bonus, LOL


When you look at Fernandez's season it was one of the greatest rookie years for a pitcher ever. At 20 yrs old straight from high a he did this. Really it's quite phenomenal and the best rookie season since doc Gooden
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11-11-2013, 07:30 PM
Post: #14
RE: Fernandez, Myers win ROY
Just for a little more perspective, here's what the voting looked like

AL 1st place votes:

Myers: 23
Iglesias: 5
Archer: 1

NL 1st place votes:

Fernandez: 26
Puig: 4
Miller: 0

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11-11-2013, 07:35 PM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2013 07:37 PM by rjcj2017.)
Post: #15
RE: Fernandez, Myers win ROY
(11-11-2013 07:30 PM)clarkzac Wrote:  Just for a little more perspective, here's what the voting looked like

AL 1st place votes:

Myers: 23
Iglesias: 5
Archer: 1

NL 1st place votes:

Fernandez: 26
Puig: 4
Miller: 0

Dude, I work for a newspaper, I'm all over it.

But put Puig in the AL and Myers in the NL, does it work out the same way?

Obviously I'm in the minority of these so-called "experts," but I believe Puig got robbed of at least a "co" award.

Oh well, wait until Puig leads the Dodgers to a championship and Fernandez pitches the Fish to, well, where they always are.

He is the next Felix Hernandez, guaranteed — great pitcher on a bad team.

It will be like when Vince Young and Texas beat Reggie Bush and USC in the Rose Bowl (and that's coming from a USC grad, as much as it hurts to say).
(11-11-2013 07:28 PM)rentzington Wrote:  When you look at Fernandez's season it was one of the greatest rookie years for a pitcher ever. At 20 yrs old straight from high a he did this. Really it's quite phenomenal and the best rookie season since doc Gooden

Or since Strasburg.

Puig is pretty special, too — straight from Cuba!
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11-11-2013, 08:06 PM
Post: #16
RE: Fernandez, Myers win ROY
Just my 2 cents...I agree with RJ...co-ROY for Puig & Jose. I don't care strictly about stats, I do think that your inpact should play a large part. ( I think Harper winning ROY is a joke as I think he is nothing more than an average player who has been tot overhyped and whose stats are pretty lame....I don't care about his age...he will not get much better). There are only 4 players playing now that I WILL PAY to see (excluding Phils) and I have said this before...Trout, Kershaw, Cabrera and Jose Fernandez. Fernandez is absolutly phenominal (spelling) and would win the CY except for Clayton.

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11-11-2013, 08:29 PM
Post: #17
RE: Fernandez, Myers win ROY
Historic is a pretty accurate word to describe Fernandez's season. While 12-6 might not be that impressive, the Marlins were 18-10 in the games he started. In 28 starts, he only allowed more than 3 runs 3 times ... for comparison sake, Kershaw gave up more than 3 runs 4 times, albeit in 33 starts.

I'm not a fan of WAR, but a lot of people seem to. So Fernandez's WAR was 6.3 and Puig's was 5. I know it's comparing apples and oranges when comparing pitchers and position players, but it gives a reasonable idea of where they rate.

Puig had an excellent season and had he been in the AL he likely would have won. But that excellent season doesn't separate it from other rookie performances in recent years ... Fernandez's most certainly did - even on an awful team.

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11-11-2013, 08:33 PM
Post: #18
RE: Fernandez, Myers win ROY
I think you spelled the phenom word correctly, but you misspelled "absolutely".

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11-11-2013, 09:42 PM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2013 09:52 PM by rjcj2017.)
Post: #19
RE: Fernandez, Myers win ROY
(11-11-2013 08:33 PM)nolan5000 Wrote:  I think you spelled the phenom word correctly, but you misspelled "absolutely".

Actually, he spelled the phenom word wrong, too, but nobody else cares if he spelled either one wrong.
OK, well, I'm clearly in the minority here ... I just recall literally EVERY box break on here this season, people showing off/trading for/fighting for almost every single Puig card that somebody pulled ... can't really say the same for Fernandez.

Point being, I recall very few rookies ever (other than Trout and Harper) making the kind of splash that Puig did ... you'd probably have to go back to the Gregg Jefferies/Ken Griffey Jr. era.

Time will tell. But I am firmly of the opinion that Pweeg should have shared it.

At minimum.
(11-11-2013 08:29 PM)jaredhuizenga Wrote:  Historic is a pretty accurate word to describe Fernandez's season. While 12-6 might not be that impressive, the Marlins were 18-10 in the games he started. In 28 starts, he only allowed more than 3 runs 3 times ... for comparison sake, Kershaw gave up more than 3 runs 4 times, albeit in 33 starts.

I'm not a fan of WAR, but a lot of people seem to. So Fernandez's WAR was 6.3 and Puig's was 5. I know it's comparing apples and oranges when comparing pitchers and position players, but it gives a reasonable idea of where they rate.

Puig had an excellent season and had he been in the AL he likely would have won. But that excellent season doesn't separate it from other rookie performances in recent years ... Fernandez's most certainly did - even on an awful team.

— Sigh — ehh, the whole WAR thing. People can literally make up any statistic they want to to fit whatever they're trying to support.

It's just like the "hold" in baseball ... stupidest stat EVER.

All I know is, the one player who completely changed around the entire fortune of his team as a ROOKIE this year was Puig, hands down, no doubt about it.

For him not to get rookie of the year was a joke, and just demonstrates how clueless some of our sportswriting brethren are.

But, hey, Fernandez is the rookie of the year, and Puig is not.

I guess putting up numbers in two thirds of a season that 90 percent of MLBers would love to have for a full season — while simultaneously leading your team out of the basement and into the playoffs — is just not enough to at least SHARE the award.

Oh well, maybe next year. Or not.
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11-11-2013, 10:25 PM
Post: #20
RE: Fernandez, Myers win ROY
One reason that Puig's cards were hot, he was the new big thing, with very limited cards. Before this year, he only had cards from Leaf, and Leaf Rize crap. These were all unlicensed cards, and less sought after than licensed cards from Topps. JoFer has had cards in 2011 and 2012. He also had a chance to prove himself last year, whereas Puig only had 60 games in the minors before being called up to the Dodgers. Cards do not dictate who is truly the best rookie. A lot of guys who were buying Puig were seeing at as investment, with hope that his cards will rise. But this should be my last post since there's no point in attempting to give you some insight as to why JoFer won over Puig, because you seem dead set on your opinion that Puig was heads and shoulders above all other rookies and should have won ROY.

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