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Jordan's last 3 championships stats
06-21-2013, 11:34 AM
Post: #11
RE: Jordan's last 3 championships stats
(06-21-2013 11:27 AM)kstjst Wrote:  this is actually why i'm liking lebron more and more...his legacy was built on and will be remembered as "the distributor." i've heard the use of that name for him a number of times. it used to be bad, but now people are understanding that it's actually a good thing.

at this point, i know im kind of beating a dead horse, but im an outspoken critic of "hero ball". lebron is one of the few superstars that doesnt buy into it, and i freaking love that about his game. i wish more fans knew the real numbers behind hero ball and why it is so so so wrong. it is a legacy left by jordan that has hurt the NBA quite a bit

i just wish lebron would play the low post more. he pulled that out of his bag of tricks last year in the playoffs when bosh went down, and he was fantastic at it

(08-06-2014 11:33 AM)jaykayzee Wrote:  Don't confuse "not valuable" with "not collectible".
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06-21-2013, 04:38 PM
Post: #12
RE: Jordan's last 3 championships stats
My apologies. I did not realize that people were running around and saying that Jordan was perfect. I watched as many Jordan games as I possibly could. I traveled to different cities to see him play in person. I have always been a Jordan fan. I'll always say that I truly believe he is the GOAT. However, he was never perfect. He had off nights, just like anyone else. It was his on nights that made him a legend.

I've always been a fan of LeBron. I've always thought that he was unbelievably gifted and that he could be the greatest to ever play. He still very well could, but he plays a different style. Believe me, I watch a ton of James games too because no one wants to miss out on seeing a true great. I've always felt he was more of a facilitator or distributor like you guys have said. I've always compared James more to Magic. Point Forwards who get their team involved, are versatile, and can play all 5 spots on the floor. I feel that if someone wanted to truly compare James, Magic would be the closest.

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06-21-2013, 06:19 PM
Post: #13
RE: Jordan's last 3 championships stats
(06-21-2013 04:38 PM)muskiesfan Wrote:  I've always been a fan of LeBron. I've always thought that he was unbelievably gifted and that he could be the greatest to ever play. He still very well could, but he plays a different style. Believe me, I watch a ton of James games too because no one wants to miss out on seeing a true great. I've always felt he was more of a facilitator or distributor like you guys have said. I've always compared James more to Magic. Point Forwards who get their team involved, are versatile, and can play all 5 spots on the floor. I feel that if someone wanted to truly compare James, Magic would be the closest.

Yeah, this is what I have always felt too. Jordan was the best offensive player and Lebron is the best all around player. Personally it is tough to compare the two. As I previously mentioned I believe the only reason they get compared now is because MJ is considered the GOAT and people think Lebron could be the next GOAT. Naturally with people saying this there is going to be comparison. Their games are not even close to being similar. I have always thought Kobe/Jordan were similar and Magic/Lebron were similar. I am a huge MJ fan and watched his games growing up. I never once thought though that Lebron reminded me of Jordan.

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06-21-2013, 06:37 PM
Post: #14
RE: Jordan's last 3 championships stats
I think when looking at Jordan's stats later in his career you also have to consider the era he was playing.

Pace was a lot slower and the rules weren't as favourable to perimeter players as they are now (hand checking was allowed) and made it much harder to get in to the paint.

Having said that, it's obvious he certainly had some off games. Even his historic "sick/flu game" he scored 45 points on 35 shots — that's positively Kobeish!

I remember in the late '90s Karl Malone took a lot of crap for (well showing up small in a lot of situations) going 2/12 or something similar in a finals game against the Bulls. A telling comment at the time was Jordan would never do that, he would have gone 2/25. That was the big thing about Jordan, even if he was struggling he still had faith in himself and that his next shot would go in.

That seems to be the big knock on LeBron at the moment. Yes, he can take over a game and score in massive bunches, but, at times it appears he doesn't believe he can and if shots aren't falling he becomes too passive.

It's, as others have pointed out, just a different mindset to Jordan.

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06-21-2013, 07:25 PM
Post: #15
RE: Jordan's last 3 championships stats
(06-21-2013 10:44 AM)kenarm79 Wrote:  Here are the stats for Michael Jordan's last three championship series. This is for everyone who feels that Jordan did no wrong on the court:



Date Opponent Result MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
05-Jun-1996 vs Seattle Supersonics W 107 - 90 41 9 18 1 4 9 10 0 7 7 2 2 1 2 4 28
07-Jun-1996 vs Seattle Supersonics W 92 - 88 43 9 22 1 2 10 16 2 4 6 8 2 0 2 3 29
09-Jun-1996 at Seattle Supersonics W 108 - 86 41 11 23 3 4 11 11 2 1 3 5 2 0 3 1 36
12-Jun-1996 at Seattle Supersonics L 86 - 107 41 6 19 0 2 11 13 1 2 3 2 1 0 4 3 23
14-Jun-1996 at Seattle Supersonics L 78 - 89 43 11 22 0 4 4 5 2 2 4 1 1 0 2 3 26
16-Jun-1996 vs Seattle Supersonics W 87 - 75 43 5 19 1 3 11 12 3 6 9 7 2 0 5 3 22


Date Opponent Result MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
01-Jun-1997 vs Utah Jazz W 84 - 82 41 13 27 0 0 5 7 1 3 4 8 0 1 0 3 31
04-Jun-1997 vs Utah Jazz W 97 - 85 45 11 20 1 2 15 21 4 9 13 9 2 0 5 2 38
06-Jun-1997 at Utah Jazz L 93 - 104 40 9 22 4 10 4 5 0 3 3 6 1 2 1 1 26
08-Jun-1997 at Utah Jazz L 73 - 78 42 11 27 0 4 0 0 1 3 4 4 0 0 3 3 22
11-Jun-1997 at Utah Jazz W 90 - 88 44 13 27 2 5 10 12 2 5 7 5 3 1 3 3 38
13-Jun-1997 vs Utah Jazz W 90 - 86 44 15 35 1 4 8 10 1 10 11 4 1 1 1 2 39



Date Opponent Result MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
03-Jun-1998 at Utah Jazz L 85 - 88 46 13 29 1 2 6 8 1 2 3 2 0 2 0 3 33
05-Jun-1998 at Utah Jazz W 93 - 88 40 14 33 0 2 9 10 3 2 5 3 1 1 0 2 37
07-Jun-1998 vs Utah Jazz W 96 - 54 32 7 14 0 0 10 11 1 2 3 2 1 1 2 1 24
10-Jun-1998 vs Utah Jazz W 86 - 82 43 12 27 0 0 10 15 3 5 8 2 2 0 3 1 34
12-Jun-1998 vs Utah Jazz L 81 - 83 45 9 26 0 2 10 11 1 3 4 4 3 0 4 4 28
14-Jun-1998 at Utah Jazz W 87 - 86 44 15 35 3 7 12 15 0 1 1 1 4 0 1 2 45


In just about every game he shot below 50% from the field. A lot of times he took a large amount of shots to get points. In the sonics series, Pippen actually carried the team in the final game. That same game, Jordan didn't play that good (he shot 5/19 for 22 pts and had 5 turnovers). I loved Jordan's game but I'm a realist. His talent was phenomenal, but he was never above the game and he was definitely human.

STATS....
STATS don't win Championships, it takes more then STATS to decipher what a player did or didn't do in a game....

Stats can be completely misleading as to how a player has performed in a game...

I'm more then happy to go through EVERY game and break them down, as I have them all on DVD, I can watch and see what a play has or hasn't done...

I will very much enjoy seeing someone try and prove MJ wasn't the best player on the court in around 85% games he played in to win the championships....

At no time did he put his team in a position to lose a championship including the very worse game he had...

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06-21-2013, 07:46 PM
Post: #16
RE: Jordan's last 3 championships stats
I don't think the point was that Jordan wasnt "the best player on the court in around 85% of the games he played in..." it was more, he wasn't perfect and did have a few mortal moments.

Everyone here seems to take any arguement for or against a player they like as a personal insult and take it to the complete extreme even if no-one else has has gone there.

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06-21-2013, 07:49 PM (This post was last modified: 06-21-2013 08:39 PM by hegotgame1515.)
Post: #17
RE: Jordan's last 3 championships stats
(06-21-2013 11:34 AM)jacobystealshome Wrote:  at this point, i know im kind of beating a dead horse, but im an outspoken critic of "hero ball". lebron is one of the few superstars that doesnt buy into it, and i freaking love that about his game. i wish more fans knew the real numbers behind hero ball and why it is so so so wrong. it is a legacy left by jordan that has hurt the NBA quite a bit

i just wish lebron would play the low post more. he pulled that out of his bag of tricks last year in the playoffs when bosh went down, and he was fantastic at it

Hero ball?

Show me what hero ball is....

Show me that MJ didn't HAVE to be the offence on his team...

Show me that MJ didn't HAVE to completely take the over offensive load in a number of games, to get his team the win...

Don't even try and say he wasn't required to get his team the points needed above anything else...

He didn't have as big of an offensive load in his second 3 peat, which I have said before, but he did have to score the majority of the points to secure victory...


(06-21-2013 06:37 PM)dodgydave Wrote:  I think when looking at Jordan's stats later in his career you also have to consider the era he was playing.

Pace was a lot slower and the rules weren't as favourable to perimeter players as they are now (hand checking was allowed) and made it much harder to get in to the paint.

Having said that, it's obvious he certainly had some off games. Even his historic "sick/flu game" he scored 45 points on 35 shots — that's positively Kobeish!

I remember in the late '90s Karl Malone took a lot of crap for (well showing up small in a lot of situations) going 2/12 or something similar in a finals game against the Bulls. A telling comment at the time was Jordan would never do that, he would have gone 2/25. That was the big thing about Jordan, even if he was struggling he still had faith in himself and that his next shot would go in.

That seems to be the big knock on LeBron at the moment. Yes, he can take over a game and score in massive bunches, but, at times it appears he doesn't believe he can and if shots aren't falling he becomes too passive.

It's, as others have pointed out, just a different mindset to Jordan.

Can not be said better then that....

(06-21-2013 11:34 AM)jacobystealshome Wrote:  at this point, i know im kind of beating a dead horse, but im an outspoken critic of "hero ball". lebron is one of the few superstars that doesnt buy into it, and i freaking love that about his game. i wish more fans knew the real numbers behind hero ball and why it is so so so wrong. it is a legacy left by jordan that has hurt the NBA quite a bit

i just wish lebron would play the low post more. he pulled that out of his bag of tricks last year in the playoffs when bosh went down, and he was fantastic at it

I have the complete opposite point of view when it comes to the game of basketball...

I don't feel the better player is the one that shy's away from having to be the person to carry the load, I don't care if the load is scoring, defence, rebounds, assists, steals, or what ever, that point is moot.

It's all about a player standing up to what his team requires him to do...

That's it, nothing other then that matters...

No body can sit here and say that Lebron James is better at his own game then MJ was with his game...

So, please don't try and say that hero ball is of any relevance...

Don't try and say that MJ was a hero, he was the absolute best at his game, far better than anyone else that has ever played the game...

Now, if you want to address skill and athletic ability basketball intelligence or any other measurable asset, i'm more then happy to have that debate...

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06-21-2013, 09:54 PM
Post: #18
RE: Jordan's last 3 championships stats
(06-21-2013 07:25 PM)hegotgame1515 Wrote:  STATS....
STATS don't win Championships, it takes more then STATS to decipher what a player did or didn't do in a game....

Stats can be completely misleading as to how a player has performed in a game...

I'm more then happy to go through EVERY game and break them down, as I have them all on DVD, I can watch and see what a play has or hasn't done...

I will very much enjoy seeing someone try and prove MJ wasn't the best player on the court in around 85% games he played in to win the championships....

At no time did he put his team in a position to lose a championship including the very worse game he had...

You are arguing a point that no one is disputing. The issue comes into play when people put these outrageous standards on Lebrons game that has never existed for any other player.

I collect LeBron, Jordan, Kobe and anything that catches my eye.
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06-21-2013, 10:02 PM
Post: #19
RE: Jordan's last 3 championships stats
Hero ball = Allen Iverson... Any and every game he played in..
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06-21-2013, 10:04 PM
Post: #20
RE: Jordan's last 3 championships stats
[Image: NBAFinalsHeat_zps8754086e.jpg]

That is all anyone needs to know about LeBron.
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