[hof collector 15]

SORRY hof collector 15. I was trying not to jack your thread with this.

So how do you explain Ralph Sampson, Arvydas Sabonis, Mel Daniels, Chet Walker, etc. getting in. Personally I don't think the guys who have votes take star power into account. At least they shouldn't. It should be based on the persons accomplishments in the league and that's all.

Don't sweat it. I like reading/talking about Hofers. I don't think any one of the aforementioned ones deserve to be except maybe for Mel Daniels but i may be biased on that one. Sabonis is based more on his overseas career.

[will23c1982]

It's the basketball HOF, not the NBA HOF, so Sabonis deserves to be in for sure.

Chet Walker was deeply revered by his peers. He's not a big stats guy but was sort of like a Paul Pierce player in his era.

Sampson is one of the weaker choices for the HOF but got in because of his individual dominance in college.

[Troubless]

However, a lot of the times I think it comes down to star power. Scottie Pippen, larger than life persona, very bousterous, invaded mainstream culture (even my mother who hates sports knows who Pippen and Rodman are). Can we say the same about Bernard King?

Frankly if an average player like Pippen can make it to the HOF (just check his stats without MJ making him look good), why shwouldn't Bernard King make it?

[swjrp10]

Frankly if an average player like Pippen can make it to the HOF (just check his stats without MJ making him look good), why shwouldn't Bernard King make it?

I'm not saying he shouldnt make it bro lol His stats alone say he should. I'm just saying that having the "star power" (not talking ability, talking about charisma and the name recognition) definitely plays a factor.

For instance, got ask a kid who watches basketball today, but wasn't around to see guys from the 90s play. I can guarentee all those kids know who Pippen is, but how many of the are going to know who Bernard King is? It's all about name recognition. It isn't right, but it's gotta be a factor.

[briankort]

an average player like Pippen

Anyone else here think Pippen was just average?

Lets compare.

Minutes: Jordan 41005 - Pippen 41076 [same]

2 pt Shot attempts: Jordan 24537 - Pippen 15700

3pt Shot attempts: Jordan 1778 - Pippen 3002

FG%: Jordan 49.7 - Pippen 47.3% [Slight edge to Jordan]

3FG%: Jordan 32.7 - Pippen 32.6% [All Even]

Points: Jordan 32292 - Pippen 18940 [Jordan obviously]

Balanced points based on both players taking the same number of shots and making at the same career percentage in 2pt and 3pt.

Jordan 32292 + 1200 (to catch up to Pippen's 3pt attempts) = 33492
Pippen 18940 + 8369 (to catch up to Jordan's 2pt attempts) = 27309

Only a difference of 6183 pts instead of 13352

FT%: Jordan 83.5 - Pippen 70.4% [OK, Jordan has him pretty good here]

Rebounds: Jordan 6672 - Pippen 7494 [822 in Pippen's favor]

Assists: Jordan 5633 - Pippen 6135 [502 in Pippen's favor]

Blocks: Jordan 893 - Pippen 947 [54 in Pippen's favor]

Steals: Jordan 2514 - Pippen 2307 [207 in Jordan's favor]

Turnovers: Jordan 2924 - Pippen 3257 [333 in Jordan's Favor]

Championship Rings: Jordan 6 - Pippen 6

And the winner is.......

JORDAN OF COURSE!!!

But Pippen was not an average player. I mean he was voted into the top 50 players of all time. But I guess all those guys are just average too except for Jordan.

(OK, I was a little bored and had some time to figure this all out)

[swjrp10]

Anyone else here think Pippen was just average?

Lets compare.

Minutes: Jordan 41005 - Pippen 41076 [same]

2 pt Shot attempts: Jordan 24537 - Pippen 15700

3pt Shot attempts: Jordan 1778 - Pippen 3002

FG%: Jordan 49.7 - Pippen 47.3% [Slight edge to Jordan]

3FG%: Jordan 32.7 - Pippen 32.6% [All Even]

Points: Jordan 32292 - Pippen 18940 [Jordan obviously]

Balanced points based on both players taking the same number of shots and making at the same career percentage in 2pt and 3pt.

Jordan 32292 + 1200 (to catch up to Pippen's 3pt attempts) = 33492
Pippen 18940 + 8369 (to catch up to Jordan's 2pt attempts) = 27309

Only a difference of 6183 pts instead of 13352

FT%: Jordan 83.5 - Pippen 70.4% [OK, Jordan has him pretty good here]

Rebounds: Jordan 6672 - Pippen 7494 [822 in Pippen's favor]

Assists: Jordan 5633 - Pippen 6135 [502 in Pippen's favor]

Blocks: Jordan 893 - Pippen 947 [54 in Pippen's favor]

Steals: Jordan 2514 - Pippen 2307 [207 in Jordan's favor]

Turnovers: Jordan 2924 - Pippen 3257 [333 in Jordan's Favor]

Championship Rings: Jordan 6 - Pippen 6

And the winner is.......

JORDAN OF COURSE!!!

But Pippen was not an average player.

(OK, I was a little bored and had some time to figure this all out)

see and it all comes down to name recognition and star power

[will23c1982]

Pippen was 'average'?

That's interesting. Because, the one year Jordan was out, Pippen led the Bulls in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks.

The only other players to achieve that?

Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady and Dave Cowens.

That achievement is anything but 'average'.

Oh, and he's also arguably the greatest wing defender in basketball history.

Yeah, he's really average....

[TBarn291]

Great pickups HOF! That Duncan was definitely worth it! I need to pick one up sometime. Also, love the Paul, another great pickup!

[Troubless]

Pippen was 'average'?

That's interesting. Because, the one year Jordan was out, Pippen led the Bulls in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks.

The only other players to achieve that?

Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady and Dave Cowens.

That achievement is anything but 'average'.

Oh, and he's also arguably the greatest wing defender in basketball history.

Yeah, he's really average....

LOL, I knew I was in for some stick when I wrote that Pippen was an average player. That's the beauty of statistics: you can demonstrate anything you want and it's contrary.

Of course he was not an average player. But I doubt that without MJ, he would even have been considered for the top 50 NBA players. I would even argue that in today's NBA there are quite a few better players, but none of them has 6 NBA titles.

[will23c1982]

Or, alternatively, maybe without MJ he would have averaged more points, more rebounds, more assists and have been the best player on a perennial title-contender, and still have made the NBA's 50 Greatest Players List.

After all, Pippen had no weakness and was one of the greatest all-around players ever.