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(01-20-2013 05:47 PM)nyyankeesfan28 Wrote: An interesting read. Both the article and this thread. My opinion is this, players who were cuaght cheating shouldn't get in. Innocent until proven guilty, right? Hence, Roger Clemens should get in. Mark McGwire shouldn't. If they didn't get caught, it is a moot point as to whether they used or not as there is no proof.
(01-20-2013 10:26 PM)joba the clark Wrote: The fact of the matter is.....Steroids do not give you the skills to play baseball. They help you heal quicker and they make your muscles grow faster. Barry Bonds was a Hall of Fame player whether he used or not. I personally will never go to the Hall of Fame after all this BS. The people that vote on that stuff are a bunch of people that never picked up a bat in their life and have no idea what it really takes to play the game of baseball. I played baseball well into college and even got scouted by a couple big league teams. And I know for a fact that steroids don't give you baseball talent. I took Andro when it was legal and I personally gained nothing from taking it and in fact I blew out my arm in front of 2 scouts while taking it. So I refuse to buy into this whole PED crap. The fact of the matter is that the baseball season is LONG and people get aches and pains and if you can take something to make yourself not have aches and pains, then you are going to do that. Some people that used steroids gained more physically than others. But that is a reflection of their workout routine. If you take steroids and sit on the couch nothing is going to happen to you except you may yell at your wife a little bit more than normal. Just further proving my point that steroids don't give you a Hall of Fame career.
(01-20-2013 10:53 PM)uvaspina Wrote: Interesting perspective. But did you read in the article where Dan Naulty (admitted steroid user) attributed steroids to his fastball velocity increasing from 87 to 96? Whether that's representative or not is impossible to say. But what is clear --to me-- at least is that the steroid era produced ridiculously inflated home run totals (among other stats). Let's be serious. Sammy Sosa was not a HOF caliber player. And then suddenly he AVERAGED more than 50 HR per year over a SEVEN-YEAR period. That's crazy.
And while Barry Bonds was certainly a HOF-caliber player all along, his steroid use turned him into a monster. I don't believe for a second that he'd hit 70+ HR as a clean player (in his late 30s). 55? Sure. 60? Mayybee. In the process though he devalued the stats and careers of a lot of guys. (I think he maybe would've had a shot at 650 HR. Tops.) Same thing with McGwire and Sosa. Steroids most certainly put them over the top. There's no way they would've broken one of the most hallowed records in all of sports had they not cheated.
I'm not sure that guys like Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod, and company deserve to be blackballed for life, but it certainly doesn't bother me one bit that they might have to wait 5 or 10 or 15 years to get in. Maybe we'll learn more in the meantime and maybe people's perception will change.
(01-20-2013 11:30 PM)joba the clark Wrote: All I can do is speak for myself and what these things did for me. I always had a cannon for an arm and I still do. I pitched for a city league baseball team 7 years after that happened in Altoona, PA and was still bringing my fastball up to 92 mph. And I was not taking anything then. But I think in most supplements that if you believe it is going to work then it will work.This guy believed steroids gave him 9 mph on his fastball...it may be true but i seriously doubt it was all steroids. I am sure he was working out like crazy to better himself as well.
(01-21-2013 12:40 PM)zeprock Wrote: Not enshrining one on speculation is as unfair as any advantage a pill or syringe could give you. What I mean by that is the writers who vote are guilty of their own sins yet they play God. That's not fair.
(01-20-2013 08:26 AM)joba the clark Wrote: If you could rig the lottery to help you gain an advantage would you do it? Of course.