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Do you see what I see?
12-13-2012, 07:30 PM
Post: #11
RE: Do you see what I see?
I think it is legit. But that's just me.

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12-13-2012, 07:31 PM
Post: #12
RE: Do you see what I see?
I thought Beckett usally Graded the Signatures in a Small Box to the Right of the Card Grade
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12-13-2012, 08:08 PM
Post: #13
RE: Do you see what I see?
It's on the back now.

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12-14-2012, 11:11 AM
Post: #14
RE: Do you see what I see?
(12-13-2012 04:46 PM)joe callahan13 Wrote:  Ummmmm, that means nothing. Go check Ebay for the 2009 NT patch autos that are numbered to 99, even. You will find at least 100 that have truly sick patches. National Treasures is like this all the time. Those /99 crazy sick patches, by the way? They don't say prime. Not only that, but the Marino prime is numbered to the same amount as the one that isn't prime. Here's an example of one I found on Ebay that's numbered to 99 and NOT considered "prime".

[Image: KGrHqZgwFCdCbnBQqsiTKJQ60_3.jpg]

That is one sick patch. That is just standard National Treasures operating procedure. And to answer your second question- no, we definitely cannot trust BGS to know what every card looked like coming out of the factory to compare it to what it looks like now. Especially in cases like National Treasures that has a history of doing things just like this, every year. You pay them for their educated opinion, and they give it. That's all grading is.

I wouldnt say it means "nothing" and here is why. Retired vets have a limited amount of game worn patches available and a high end product like NT isnt going to make the mistake of adding prime patches to base versions. Is it possible? Sure. Likely? No. To me just the look of the patch is off. I wouldnt even know from what year the patch couldve come from. 1992?

As for the Freeman all that stuff is event worn and mass produced so its very common for prime patches to be placed into base versions.

Lets put it this way I cant say for sure its 100% fake but I wouldnt buy it for $50 to be honest. I just doesnt look right to me.

And I agree with you about BGS. I wish card companies took a stronger stance on protecting the integrity of the cards. I dont see why they cannot take a photo of front and back of a card with its serial # so consumers can prove there cards are legit after they hit the market.

NOTE I emailed the seller asking for the cards serial # and still havent gotten a response. Another red flag...

Unique Cards:
Dolphins - ?
Marino - 1867
Zach Thomas - 682
Jason Taylor - 583
Lamar Miller - 131
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12-14-2012, 01:52 PM
Post: #15
RE: Do you see what I see?
I took a look at Panini's website to see what you guys were discussing. And lo and behold, Panini itself has a similar patch on the sample card they have posted to this exact card listing. So, I'm going to say that the card is legit.
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12-14-2012, 03:11 PM
Post: #16
RE: Do you see what I see?
(12-14-2012 11:11 AM)bakerman8419 Wrote:  I wouldnt say it means "nothing" and here is why. Retired vets have a limited amount of game worn patches available and a high end product like NT isnt going to make the mistake of adding prime patches to base versions. Is it possible? Sure. Likely? No.

It's not only likely, it's definite. They do it EVERY year. Every single year, NT is full of these instances.

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12-14-2012, 03:55 PM (This post was last modified: 12-14-2012 04:36 PM by bakerman8419.)
Post: #17
RE: Do you see what I see?
(12-14-2012 01:52 PM)kstjst Wrote:  I took a look at Panini's website to see what you guys were discussing. And lo and behold, Panini itself has a similar patch on the sample card they have posted to this exact card listing. So, I'm going to say that the card is legit.

Feel free to post a link to where you found this info. Id appreciate it. Thanks.
(12-14-2012 03:11 PM)joe callahan13 Wrote:  It's not only likely, it's definite. They do it EVERY year. Every single year, NT is full of these instances.

Have any examples of this? Remember Im only referring to retired vets not current players or rcs.

Unique Cards:
Dolphins - ?
Marino - 1867
Zach Thomas - 682
Jason Taylor - 583
Lamar Miller - 131
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12-14-2012, 05:32 PM
Post: #18
RE: Do you see what I see?
Here's the link:

http://www.paniniamerica.net/checklists.cfm

If it's not pulling up properly, go to the Panini website, under checklist, type=football, year=2009, brand=playoff, program = national treasures, cardset=timeline-signature-materials-custom names. First card in the list is the Marino with a picture.

(12-14-2012 03:55 PM)bakerman8419 Wrote:  Feel free to post a link to where you found this info. Id appreciate it. Thanks.
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12-14-2012, 05:58 PM
Post: #19
RE: Do you see what I see?
(12-14-2012 05:32 PM)kstjst Wrote:  Here's the link:

http://www.paniniamerica.net/checklists.cfm

If it's not pulling up properly, go to the Panini website, under checklist, type=football, year=2009, brand=playoff, program = national treasures, cardset=timeline-signature-materials-custom names. First card in the list is the Marino with a picture.

I appreciate the info bud. I never knew Panini showcased a preview on some cards like that. However this proves nothing. They used the same photo for both base and prime variations. Plus Im not sure the pic they show is of an actual card or a digital copy.

Unique Cards:
Dolphins - ?
Marino - 1867
Zach Thomas - 682
Jason Taylor - 583
Lamar Miller - 131
[Image: 4F27A3AC-9ACF-437D-980D-3302B03C9A4A-127...fd7aa1.jpg]
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12-14-2012, 06:27 PM
Post: #20
RE: Do you see what I see?
(12-14-2012 05:58 PM)bakerman8419 Wrote:  I appreciate the info bud. I never knew Panini showcased a preview on some cards like that. However this proves nothing. They used the same photo for both base and prime variations. Plus Im not sure the pic they show is of an actual card or a digital copy.

I did a little bit of searching and found no examples of the regular non prime versions having multiple colors, I didn't spend too much time looking though. If they do this then it's at least uncommon if not rare.

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