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Graded Card Prices Ruining The Hobby
11-28-2012, 10:16 AM
Post: #1
Graded Card Prices Ruining The Hobby
I think graded card services like PSA, Beckett and BVG are great for our hobby and industry. It comes in handy at a time when Topps, Panini, Upper Deck, etc. have lost so much creativity that they are reprinting cards that were originally produced within the last 7-8 years and beyond. Especially Topps. I, personally, believe there should not be a reprint of any card produced by Topps & the other companys that was originally produced in the last 60-70 years. I can somewhat understand reprinting cards from the pre-WWII era, but no way should Topps reprint Eli Manning's 2004 Topps rookie card or Mickey Mantle's 1964 Topps card. That is just ridiculous and obviously a lack of creativity on Topps part. I also don't think they should reuse any designs from the past, such as the 1962 Topps design, 1975 Topps design, & 1987 Topps design just to name a FEW.

It's reprints like these that young children are being duped into thinking they are buying the original rookie cards. So we need grading card services. But what did we do before those grading services? The hobby was held honest before the grading services took over. If you were selling a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle in NM+ condition, you would sell it for the book value, roughly $30,000. But because of grading services, this same card graded 7.5, a seller would ask $65,000+ for it. More than twice the book value.

I recently saw a 1989 Maxx Crisco Dale Earnhardt rookie card that had been graded a 10 Gem Mint by PSA for sale on ebay. The card in Mint condition has a book value of $10, but the ebay seller is asking $130. Before grading card companies, this card would sell for its book value of $10. If Beckett Media is going through the process of granting book values of cards in Mint condition, why do we feel a graded card automatically jumps the value. We especially see this in vintage cards. A 1963 Topps Mickey Mantle in NM-M condition has a $600 book value, but if one has been graded a 8 - 10, most sellers ask $750+ just because it has been graded. This is where the honesty is taken out of the hobby.

And with the recent bombardment of reprints by Topps, you almost have to send your cards in for grading, and mostly authentication, to make sure you investment is secure. It really sounds like a conspiracy between the grading card services and the trading card companies. Why would Topps need to reprint a 1984 Topps Eric Dickerson rookie card in the 2010? It doesn't make any sense. There are thousands of the originals still floating around. It's not like this card is rare. It just sounds like a lack of creativity to me.

Graded card prices have gotten so far out of hand. I understand that finding a pre-WWII card in NM-MT condition is rare and that a card from that era, in that condition, could command a higher premium than the book value. But it is still a dishonesty an industry already affected by those that create fakes/counterfeits to dupe collectors. Grading card services are great for the industry in that it helps with authentication of cards. I think grading cards is great for the industry too. My complaint is not about grading card companies. My complaint is about selling prices & book values that are affected by graded cards.

If buyers and collectors would become a little more sensible and modest about the prices they pay for cards, this would end all of the madness graded cards have created. And the grading card companies wouldn't be affected by this at all.

But Topps, the most ridiculous of trading card companies when it comes to reprints of original versions, needs to be a lot more creative and stop reprinting cards they have already originally produced. Because of Topps, I have completely changed my way of collecting. I stopped buying hobby boxes and packs. I only buy cards of players that are in the Hall of Fame or on the course to be elected to the Hall of Fame. About 80% of my collecting is going towards vintage cards & pre-1987 era cards. The large majority of the cards have book values that are established and only going to increase. This secures my investment. And I'm not contributing to Topps and the others in terms of buying new products. I've convinced several other collectors to take this approach. And they have reached out to their contacts to start doing the same thing. After a recent FBI investigation revealed that trading card companies were selling cards that they claimed contained original game used jersey and bat cuts, I will never support something that isn't authentic. Topps was one of the companies named in the FBI report. You can find it online.

Please let me know what others think about what I've said above. I'm open to hearing anyone that isn't just downright rude. If I'm looking at it the wrong way, tell me positively the thinking behind graded card prices. Thank you!
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11-28-2012, 12:47 PM
Post: #2
RE: Graded Card Prices Ruining The Hobby
Who uses Beckett to price cards on ebay anymore? Beckett price guides have been obsolete for 15 years now.


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11-28-2012, 01:24 PM
Post: #3
RE: Graded Card Prices Ruining The Hobby
(11-28-2012 12:47 PM)jchavestx Wrote:  Who uses Beckett to price cards on ebay anymore? Beckett price guides have been obsolete for 15 years now.

The price guides aren't obsolete. I used to buy them at Barnes & Noble and see them at Wal-Mart as well, but now I use Beckett's Online Price Guide.

What source do you use to find book value for your cards?
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11-28-2012, 01:38 PM
Post: #4
RE: Graded Card Prices Ruining The Hobby
(11-28-2012 01:24 PM)bmcnutt Wrote:  The price guides aren't obsolete. I used to buy them at Barnes & Noble and see them at Wal-Mart as well, but now I use Beckett's Online Price Guide.

What source do you use to find book value for your cards?

I know I don't use Becketts price guides as a guideline for card value, I use ebay and other completed auctions/sales. Beckett can list a card for $80 all it wants but if the same card sells at $40 all day then its a $40 card, not $80 that Beckett would list it as.

The majority of Becketts prices are way higher than a typical sale value of just about any card.

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11-28-2012, 02:39 PM
Post: #5
RE: Graded Card Prices Ruining The Hobby
Ebay completed listings are my price guide. The only thing I use Beckett for is as a reference like as a checklist.


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11-28-2012, 03:49 PM
Post: #6
RE: Graded Card Prices Ruining The Hobby
Furthermore, you dont need a grading company to verify the authenticity of a Topps reprint. You can always check the back of the card near the copyright/trademark information, it will always have the year the card was printed.


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11-28-2012, 09:58 PM
Post: #7
RE: Graded Card Prices Ruining The Hobby
From what I see online, is that nobody seems to understand that Beckett is a GUIDE. Meaning it's not the be all that ends all. Additionally, and as seen in a post above, all anybody seems to pay any attention to is the high BV. There is also the low, but people seem to conveniently ignore that. They aren't giving a "HERE'S THE EXACT VALUE" price. They are giving a range per grade.

Additionally, if people can't see the MANY flaws with using ebay ended listings as their only guide, they probably shouldn't be knocking Beckett. In my opinion anyway, if someone wants to figure out a "value", they shouldn't be using one source but should be utilizing as many as they possibly can and look at the overall picture.
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11-30-2012, 10:15 PM
Post: #8
RE: Graded Card Prices Ruining The Hobby
Man, y'all went way off topic.
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12-01-2012, 09:38 AM (This post was last modified: 12-01-2012 09:50 AM by nolan5000.)
Post: #9
RE: Graded Card Prices Ruining The Hobby
(11-28-2012 09:58 PM)ricelynnevans75 Wrote:  From what I see online, is that nobody seems to understand that Beckett is a GUIDE. Meaning it's not the be all that ends all. Additionally, and as seen in a post above, all anybody seems to pay any attention to is the high BV. There is also the low, but people seem to conveniently ignore that. They aren't giving a "HERE'S THE EXACT VALUE" price. They are giving a range per grade.

Additionally, if people can't see the MANY flaws with using ebay ended listings as their only guide, they probably shouldn't be knocking Beckett. In my opinion anyway, if someone wants to figure out a "value", they shouldn't be using one source but should be utilizing as many as they possibly can and look at the overall picture.

+1
(11-28-2012 10:16 AM)bmcnutt Wrote:  Beckett and BVG

In case you didn't know, Beckett & BVG are the same company. BVG stands for Beckett Vintage Grading and all cards that are pre-1981 are graded using these guidelines.

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12-09-2012, 02:43 PM
Post: #10
RE: Graded Card Prices Ruining The Hobby
(11-28-2012 10:16 AM)bmcnutt Wrote:  I think graded card services like PSA, Beckett and BVG are great for our hobby and industry. It comes in handy at a time when Topps, Panini, Upper Deck, etc. have lost so much creativity that they are reprinting cards that were originally produced within the last 7-8 years and beyond. Especially Topps. I, personally, believe there should not be a reprint of any card produced by Topps & the other companys that was originally produced in the last 60-70 years. I can somewhat understand reprinting cards from the pre-WWII era, but no way should Topps reprint Eli Manning's 2004 Topps rookie card or Mickey Mantle's 1964 Topps card. That is just ridiculous and obviously a lack of creativity on Topps part. I also don't think they should reuse any designs from the past, such as the 1962 Topps design, 1975 Topps design, & 1987 Topps design just to name a FEW.

It's reprints like these that young children are being duped into thinking they are buying the original rookie cards. So we need grading card services. But what did we do before those grading services? The hobby was held honest before the grading services took over. If you were selling a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle in NM+ condition, you would sell it for the book value, roughly $30,000. But because of grading services, this same card graded 7.5, a seller would ask $65,000+ for it. More than twice the book value.

I recently saw a 1989 Maxx Crisco Dale Earnhardt rookie card that had been graded a 10 Gem Mint by PSA for sale on ebay. The card in Mint condition has a book value of $10, but the ebay seller is asking $130. Before grading card companies, this card would sell for its book value of $10. If Beckett Media is going through the process of granting book values of cards in Mint condition, why do we feel a graded card automatically jumps the value. We especially see this in vintage cards. A 1963 Topps Mickey Mantle in NM-M condition has a $600 book value, but if one has been graded a 8 - 10, most sellers ask $750+ just because it has been graded. This is where the honesty is taken out of the hobby.

And with the recent bombardment of reprints by Topps, you almost have to send your cards in for grading, and mostly authentication, to make sure you investment is secure. It really sounds like a conspiracy between the grading card services and the trading card companies. Why would Topps need to reprint a 1984 Topps Eric Dickerson rookie card in the 2010? It doesn't make any sense. There are thousands of the originals still floating around. It's not like this card is rare. It just sounds like a lack of creativity to me.

Graded card prices have gotten so far out of hand. I understand that finding a pre-WWII card in NM-MT condition is rare and that a card from that era, in that condition, could command a higher premium than the book value. But it is still a dishonesty an industry already affected by those that create fakes/counterfeits to dupe collectors. Grading card services are great for the industry in that it helps with authentication of cards. I think grading cards is great for the industry too. My complaint is not about grading card companies. My complaint is about selling prices & book values that are affected by graded cards.

If buyers and collectors would become a little more sensible and modest about the prices they pay for cards, this would end all of the madness graded cards have created. And the grading card companies wouldn't be affected by this at all.

But Topps, the most ridiculous of trading card companies when it comes to reprints of original versions, needs to be a lot more creative and stop reprinting cards they have already originally produced. Because of Topps, I have completely changed my way of collecting. I stopped buying hobby boxes and packs. I only buy cards of players that are in the Hall of Fame or on the course to be elected to the Hall of Fame. About 80% of my collecting is going towards vintage cards & pre-1987 era cards. The large majority of the cards have book values that are established and only going to increase. This secures my investment. And I'm not contributing to Topps and the others in terms of buying new products. I've convinced several other collectors to take this approach. And they have reached out to their contacts to start doing the same thing. After a recent FBI investigation revealed that trading card companies were selling cards that they claimed contained original game used jersey and bat cuts, I will never support something that isn't authentic. Topps was one of the companies named in the FBI report. You can find it online.

Please let me know what others think about what I've said above. I'm open to hearing anyone that isn't just downright rude. If I'm looking at it the wrong way, tell me positively the thinking behind graded card prices. Thank you!

I would agree that the reprinting of cards has gotten way out of hand, and quite frankly the number of new cards of retired players is downright ridiculous, but neither have anything to do with the prices of graded cards. For older and really popular cards, grading secures both the card's authenticity and the fact that it hasn't been trimmed or altered in any way (anyone else put a black Sharpie on their dinged 1987 Donruss Mark McGwire when they were a kid?). For other cards it comes down to scarcity. There might be 10,000, 100,000, or a million 1982 Topps Cal Ripken rookies but only a handful of them are graded BGS 9.5 or PSA 10 or whatever. And people are willing to pay higher prices for cleaner versions of these cards.
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