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Am I being too sensitive?
10-16-2012, 08:35 AM
Post: #11
RE: Am I being too sensitive?
Lower feedback is a really good card. The other one the guy sent me came in looking great.

As for the shipping thing, if it's a low-end card and I get free shipping or even pay only 75 cents, I don't mind PWE - you pay for what you get. As long as the card shows up protected inside of it, I'm cool with it. It's when I paid 95 cents each for these two cards and they showed up in the same top loader in PWE ... that's not cool.

So I think a slight ding on feedback could be the way to go.

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10-16-2012, 04:01 PM
Post: #12
RE: Am I being too sensitive?
EX-MT, probably. Close enough that I personally wouldn't sweat it (or ding him). If he had described it as MT or NM-MT, I think we have a problem.
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10-16-2012, 07:11 PM
Post: #13
RE: Am I being too sensitive?
That card is maybe a 6 or a 7. Definitely not NM. If it really bugs you, then send it back. If not, just leave neutral feedback.

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10-16-2012, 07:32 PM
Post: #14
RE: Am I being too sensitive?
To help you ut, here are the requirements for condition, when grading.

Pristine 10

Centering: 50/50 all around on front. 60/40 or better on back. Corners: Perfect to the naked eye and Mint under magnification. Edges: Perfect to the naked eye and virtually free of flaws under magnification. Surface: No print spots. Flawless color, devoid of registration or focus imperfections. Perfect gloss, devoid of scratches and metallic print lines.

Gem Mint 9.5

Centering: 50/50 one way, 55/45 the other on front. 60/40 or better on back Corners: Mint to the naked eye, but slight imperfections allowed under magnification. Edges: Virtually Mint to the naked eye. A speck of wear is allowed under intense scrutiny. Surface: A few extremely minor print spots, detectable only under intense scrutiny. Deep color, devoid of registration or focus imperfections. Perfect gloss, devoid of scratches and metallic print lines

Mint 9

Centering: 55/45 both ways on front. 70/30 or better on back. Corners: Mint upon close inspection. A speck of wear is allowed under intense scrutiny. Edges: Virtually Mint to the naked eye. Unobtrusive specks of chipping on the borders are allowed. Surface: A handful of printing specks or one minor spot. Very minor focus or color imperfections. Clean gloss with one or two tiny scratches barely noticeable to the naked eye. One faint, unobtrusive metallic print line is allowed.

Near Mint/Mint 8

Centering: 60/40 both ways or better on front. 80/20 or better on back. Corners: Sharp to the naked eye, but slight imperfections allowed under close examination. Edges: Relatively smooth borders. Specks of chipping visible to the naked eye are allowed. Surface: A few minor print spots. Very minor color or focus imperfections. Solid gloss with very minor scratches detectable only upon close inspection. Or a subtle metallic print line.

Near Mint 7

Centering: 65/35 both ways or better on front. 90/10 or better on back. Very slight diamond cutting is allowed. Corners: Very minor wear on two or three corners is allowed. Edges: Slight roughness, minor chipping or very minor notching is allowed. Surface: A few noticeable print spots or minor speckling is allowed. Minor color or focus imperfections. Very minor border discoloration. A very minor wax stain on back. Solid gloss with a few minor scratches detectable upon close inspection. A few metallic print lines.

Excellent Mint 6

Centering: 70/30 both ways or better on front. 95/5 or better on back. Slight diamond cutting is allowed. Corners: Fuzzy corners, but free of dings and fraying. Edges: Moderate roughness, moderate chipping or minor notching is allowed. Surface: Noticeable print spots. Minor color or focus imperfections. Minor border discoloration and color or focus imperfections. Minor wax stains or extremely subtle ink marks. Relatively solid gloss with minor scratches, but devoid of scuffing. Noticeable metallic print lines.

Excellent 5

Centering: 75/25 both ways or better on front. 95/5 or better on back. Slight diamond cutting is allowed. Corners: Four fuzzy corners, a touch of notching or a minor ding is allowed. Edges: Noticeable roughness - but no layering. Very slight notching or noticeable chipping is allowed. Surface: Noticeable print spots. Minor color or focus imperfections. Minor border discoloration. Minor wax stains or very light ink mark. Some gloss lost from surface with minor scratches, but devoid of scuffing.

Very Good/Excellent - 4

Centering: 80/20 both ways or better on front. 100/0 or better on back. Moderate diamond cutting is allowed. Corners: Slight notching or layering, or moderate dings are allowed. Edges: Readily chipped or notched and/or slightly layered. Surface: Heavy print spots. Hairline creases. Moderate color or focus imperfections. Moderate border discoloration. Moderate wax stains. Very light ink mark or tape stain. A good deal of gloss lost from surface. Very minor scuffing or an extremely subtle tear in the form of a touch of broken surface paper.

Very Good 3

Centering: 85/15 both ways or better on front. 100/0 or better on back. Moderate diamond cutting is allowed. Corners: Slightly rounded or noticeably notched corners with slight layering is allowed. Edges: Heavy notching, moderate layering or heavy chipping is allowed. Surface: Heavy print spots. Very minor creases. Noticeable color or focus imperfections. Noticeable border discoloration. Noticeable wax stains. Light ink mark or tape stain. Very little surface gloss. Minor scuffing or a very minor tear.

Good 2

Centering: 90/10 both ways or better on front. 100/0 or offcut on back. Noticeable diamond cutting is allowed. Corners: Noticeably rounded or heavily notched corners with moderate layering. Edges: Severely chipped, notched or layered. Surface: Severe print spots. Noticeable creases. Noticeable color or focus imperfections. Noticeable border discoloration. Heavy wax stains. Moderate ink mark or tape stain. A surface devoid of gloss. Noticeable scuffing or a noticeable tear.

Poor 1

Centering: 100/0 or offcut on front or back. Heavy diamond cutting is allowed. Corners: Heavily rounded or heavily notched with noticeable layering. Edges: Destructive chipping, notching or layering. Surface: Severe print spots. Heavy creases. Severe color or focus imperfections. Heavy border discoloration. Severe stains. No original gloss. Heavy scuffing or a severe tear

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10-16-2012, 08:08 PM
Post: #15
RE: Am I being too sensitive?
Thus probably a 6.

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10-17-2012, 10:38 AM
Post: #16
RE: Am I being too sensitive?
Thanks for the input everyone. I decided to hang onto it for now and left neutralish feedback for the seller, since the other card showed up looking better than I expected it to. I figured since it's a low-end card, if it just looks out of place in my Kepler PC as I progress and bugs me that much, I'll pick up a replacement.

All of the feedback is much appreciated.

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10-17-2012, 10:42 AM
Post: #17
RE: Am I being too sensitive?
(10-16-2012 01:29 AM)spazmatastic Wrote:  This hobby has gone to hell in only a couple of years. That is a TriStar card, but you can't even expect anything better from a Topps product nowadays. The chipping is pretty bad, BUT you could buy a high-end box of a Topps product and get the same thing.
The thicker the card, the worse the chipping seems. It is truly in the collectors' eyes now.
Personally, I'd be upset but also I know that I am unlikely to get a better version. I am just unhappy with the quality of all MLB cards now (even if it's TriStar minor league cards)!
JMO, so PLZ don't rant against my opinion, folks.

I agree ... I understand occasional quality control issues with like, base Topps (millions of each card), but it seems like they would do a better job on the higher end stuff (Inception, etc.) ...
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10-17-2012, 02:40 PM (This post was last modified: 10-17-2012 02:41 PM by shezdoni.)
Post: #18
RE: Am I being too sensitive?
(10-17-2012 10:42 AM)rjcj2017 Wrote:  I agree ... I understand occasional quality control issues with like, base Topps (millions of each card), but it seems like they would do a better job on the higher end stuff (Inception, etc.) ...

It's not a quality control problem at Topps, it's the way people open packs, handle the cards, and put them in penny sleeves that cause most of the damage.

Too many people try to blame the manufacturers for something they did themselves by the way the open the packs

Here is a very good article written by Shelton Yuen back in 2008

How to Protect Your Sports Cards
S. Yuen, NCSP
S. Yuen, NCSP, Yahoo! Contributor Network
Aug 13, 2008


Any serious sports card collector knows that their cards must be kept in gem mint condition to maintain maximum value. In an age where cardboard shoeboxes are not good enough anymore, a wide variety of sleeves, toploaders, and card holders have appeared on the market. However, card protection equipment is only part of the equation; protecting your cards will require both technique and technology! This guide will show you how to protect your cards from its retrieval from the original wax pack and into its protective casing.

1. Busting Wax - Ripping open packs of cards is often the most exciting part of card collection. However, collectors, often caught up in the excitement, inadvertently damage their cards in the process. Opening a pack of sports card is an art, and collectors should relish this experience like a ribeye steak from a fine dining restaurant. While higher end quality cards are encased in elaborate boxes and packaging that will minimize damage, cards from lower end foil and plastic packs are at the highest risk of being damaged. The most common way that cards are damaged are when collectors tear the middle of the pack and then attempt to pull the remaining wrapper over the edges. Some collectors cut off the top with scissors and try to slide the cards out through the tiny opening; this also increases the risk of damaging the cards. The best way is to first cut the top off with scissors and then cut the foil right down the middle. The foil packaging will then fall smoothly off of the precious cards like a button up shirt and the cards can be safely retrieved.

2. Handling Cardboard - It goes without saying that cards should not be thrown around, drawn on, and most definitely not put in the spokes of your favorite bicycle. However, on youtube and pictures pictures, collectors' understanding of gentle handling varies and is often incorrect. Ideally, valuable cards should be immediately place in their appropriate card protective devices upon being removed from the packaging. However, if the card must be handled, the card should be held on lightly on the edges with the thumb and index finger, much like how one would hold a CD. Holding cards by touching their surface not only leave unattractive fingerprints, but can damage the constitution of your card through natural body oils on your skin. Dirt on your hands might also be smeared onto your cards lowering its value. Finally, never touch the corners of your cards. Never means NEVER. The corners are most sensitive and fragile parts of the sports card and frequent contact can damage them.

3. Storing Cardboard - Proper storing is the most crucial part of card collecting. While base cards with minimal value can be stored in cardboard boxes with no special protection, cards with higher value should be placed inside protective sleeves straight from the pack. There are four basic types of protective sleeves: penny sleeve, top loaders, screw down/magnetic holders, 9 card pages, and team bags. Generally, cards should be first placed in a penny sleeve and then a top loader.

Penny sleeves - These are the most basic and cheapest holders providing basic protection. A pack of 100 sleeves generally cost $1.00 and comes in two sizes. Use the narrower sizes for normal thickness cards and the wider size for thicker memorabilia cards. More often than not, placing cards inside penny sleeves can prove difficult and provides another opportunity to damage the corners of valuable cards. A neat trick is to snip off one of the top corners of the penny sleeve with a pair of scissors; doing so will allow collectors to place cards inside the penny sleeve with ease and minimize damage. Once the card is tucked neatly within a penny sleeve, they can be placed in a 9 card page or top loader.

9 card page - 9 card pages are the clear plastic pages that can be placed inside a 3 ring binder. These provide minimal protection but is nice for display. Be sure to place valuable cards inside penny sleeves beforehand as cards have a tendency to slide out of the page. In addition, be sure the pages are placed properly inside the binder and nothing is bent.

Top Loaders [b]- Top loaders are ever popular with collectors due to their rigid nature, affordability, and ease of use. Top loader comes in all sizes to fit cards of various thickness. Buying the correct size toploaders will minimize damage to your cards. Forcing a thick card into a thin loader will damage the edges and corners of the cards while thin cards placed in thick toploaders will slip out and become damaged.

[b]Team bags
- Team bags resembles penny sleeves but are longer, wider, and can be sealed on top. Team bags are great for holding a small stack of 10-20 cards. Team bags can also be used to protect cards inside of a toploader to prevent moisture from seeping in and damaging cards.

Screwdown/magnetic holders - These are the best technology in card protection and will cost about $2 per holder. Usually saved for the most valuable and premium cards, screwdown holders are hard and air tight. There is no need to use a penny sleeve if you plan on using on of these holders. Like toploaders, these also come in different thickness. Finding the right thickness will ensure that your card will not shift around in the holder.

Card collecting is a fun and rewarding hobby. Following the above tips will help keep cards in their optimal shape and protect your investments. Until next time, collect well and prosper!

Thanks to Shelton Yuen for a great article...

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10-17-2012, 03:18 PM
Post: #19
RE: Am I being too sensitive?
(10-17-2012 02:40 PM)shezdoni Wrote:  It's not a quality control problem at Topps, it's the way people open packs, handle the cards, and put them in penny sleeves that cause most of the damage.

Too many people try to blame the manufacturers for something they did themselves by the way the open the packs

Here is a very good article written by Shelton Yuen back in 2008

How to Protect Your Sports Cards
S. Yuen, NCSP
S. Yuen, NCSP, Yahoo! Contributor Network
Aug 13, 2008


Any serious sports card collector knows that their cards must be kept in gem mint condition to maintain maximum value. In an age where cardboard shoeboxes are not good enough anymore, a wide variety of sleeves, toploaders, and card holders have appeared on the market. However, card protection equipment is only part of the equation; protecting your cards will require both technique and technology! This guide will show you how to protect your cards from its retrieval from the original wax pack and into its protective casing.

1. Busting Wax - Ripping open packs of cards is often the most exciting part of card collection. However, collectors, often caught up in the excitement, inadvertently damage their cards in the process. Opening a pack of sports card is an art, and collectors should relish this experience like a ribeye steak from a fine dining restaurant. While higher end quality cards are encased in elaborate boxes and packaging that will minimize damage, cards from lower end foil and plastic packs are at the highest risk of being damaged. The most common way that cards are damaged are when collectors tear the middle of the pack and then attempt to pull the remaining wrapper over the edges. Some collectors cut off the top with scissors and try to slide the cards out through the tiny opening; this also increases the risk of damaging the cards. The best way is to first cut the top off with scissors and then cut the foil right down the middle. The foil packaging will then fall smoothly off of the precious cards like a button up shirt and the cards can be safely retrieved.

2. Handling Cardboard - It goes without saying that cards should not be thrown around, drawn on, and most definitely not put in the spokes of your favorite bicycle. However, on youtube and pictures pictures, collectors' understanding of gentle handling varies and is often incorrect. Ideally, valuable cards should be immediately place in their appropriate card protective devices upon being removed from the packaging. However, if the card must be handled, the card should be held on lightly on the edges with the thumb and index finger, much like how one would hold a CD. Holding cards by touching their surface not only leave unattractive fingerprints, but can damage the constitution of your card through natural body oils on your skin. Dirt on your hands might also be smeared onto your cards lowering its value. Finally, never touch the corners of your cards. Never means NEVER. The corners are most sensitive and fragile parts of the sports card and frequent contact can damage them.

3. Storing Cardboard - Proper storing is the most crucial part of card collecting. While base cards with minimal value can be stored in cardboard boxes with no special protection, cards with higher value should be placed inside protective sleeves straight from the pack. There are four basic types of protective sleeves: penny sleeve, top loaders, screw down/magnetic holders, 9 card pages, and team bags. Generally, cards should be first placed in a penny sleeve and then a top loader.

Penny sleeves - These are the most basic and cheapest holders providing basic protection. A pack of 100 sleeves generally cost $1.00 and comes in two sizes. Use the narrower sizes for normal thickness cards and the wider size for thicker memorabilia cards. More often than not, placing cards inside penny sleeves can prove difficult and provides another opportunity to damage the corners of valuable cards. A neat trick is to snip off one of the top corners of the penny sleeve with a pair of scissors; doing so will allow collectors to place cards inside the penny sleeve with ease and minimize damage. Once the card is tucked neatly within a penny sleeve, they can be placed in a 9 card page or top loader.

9 card page - 9 card pages are the clear plastic pages that can be placed inside a 3 ring binder. These provide minimal protection but is nice for display. Be sure to place valuable cards inside penny sleeves beforehand as cards have a tendency to slide out of the page. In addition, be sure the pages are placed properly inside the binder and nothing is bent.

Top Loaders [b]- Top loaders are ever popular with collectors due to their rigid nature, affordability, and ease of use. Top loader comes in all sizes to fit cards of various thickness. Buying the correct size toploaders will minimize damage to your cards. Forcing a thick card into a thin loader will damage the edges and corners of the cards while thin cards placed in thick toploaders will slip out and become damaged.

[b]Team bags
- Team bags resembles penny sleeves but are longer, wider, and can be sealed on top. Team bags are great for holding a small stack of 10-20 cards. Team bags can also be used to protect cards inside of a toploader to prevent moisture from seeping in and damaging cards.

Screwdown/magnetic holders - These are the best technology in card protection and will cost about $2 per holder. Usually saved for the most valuable and premium cards, screwdown holders are hard and air tight. There is no need to use a penny sleeve if you plan on using on of these holders. Like toploaders, these also come in different thickness. Finding the right thickness will ensure that your card will not shift around in the holder.

Card collecting is a fun and rewarding hobby. Following the above tips will help keep cards in their optimal shape and protect your investments. Until next time, collect well and prosper!

Thanks to Shelton Yuen for a great article...
You see!! It is always a good idea to go back to basics, even for old collectors like me..Excellent post..must read for new collectors..Thanks for this post!!!

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10-17-2012, 07:19 PM
Post: #20
RE: Am I being too sensitive?
(10-17-2012 02:40 PM)shezdoni Wrote:  It's not a quality control problem at Topps, it's the way people open packs, handle the cards, and put them in penny sleeves that cause most of the damage.

Too many people try to blame the manufacturers for something they did themselves by the way the open the packs

Here is a very good article written by Shelton Yuen back in 2008

How to Protect Your Sports Cards
S. Yuen, NCSP
S. Yuen, NCSP, Yahoo! Contributor Network
Aug 13, 2008


Any serious sports card collector knows that their cards must be kept in gem mint condition to maintain maximum value. In an age where cardboard shoeboxes are not good enough anymore, a wide variety of sleeves, toploaders, and card holders have appeared on the market. However, card protection equipment is only part of the equation; protecting your cards will require both technique and technology! This guide will show you how to protect your cards from its retrieval from the original wax pack and into its protective casing.

1. Busting Wax - Ripping open packs of cards is often the most exciting part of card collection. However, collectors, often caught up in the excitement, inadvertently damage their cards in the process. Opening a pack of sports card is an art, and collectors should relish this experience like a ribeye steak from a fine dining restaurant. While higher end quality cards are encased in elaborate boxes and packaging that will minimize damage, cards from lower end foil and plastic packs are at the highest risk of being damaged. The most common way that cards are damaged are when collectors tear the middle of the pack and then attempt to pull the remaining wrapper over the edges. Some collectors cut off the top with scissors and try to slide the cards out through the tiny opening; this also increases the risk of damaging the cards. The best way is to first cut the top off with scissors and then cut the foil right down the middle. The foil packaging will then fall smoothly off of the precious cards like a button up shirt and the cards can be safely retrieved.

2. Handling Cardboard - It goes without saying that cards should not be thrown around, drawn on, and most definitely not put in the spokes of your favorite bicycle. However, on youtube and pictures pictures, collectors' understanding of gentle handling varies and is often incorrect. Ideally, valuable cards should be immediately place in their appropriate card protective devices upon being removed from the packaging. However, if the card must be handled, the card should be held on lightly on the edges with the thumb and index finger, much like how one would hold a CD. Holding cards by touching their surface not only leave unattractive fingerprints, but can damage the constitution of your card through natural body oils on your skin. Dirt on your hands might also be smeared onto your cards lowering its value. Finally, never touch the corners of your cards. Never means NEVER. The corners are most sensitive and fragile parts of the sports card and frequent contact can damage them.

3. Storing Cardboard - Proper storing is the most crucial part of card collecting. While base cards with minimal value can be stored in cardboard boxes with no special protection, cards with higher value should be placed inside protective sleeves straight from the pack. There are four basic types of protective sleeves: penny sleeve, top loaders, screw down/magnetic holders, 9 card pages, and team bags. Generally, cards should be first placed in a penny sleeve and then a top loader.

Penny sleeves - These are the most basic and cheapest holders providing basic protection. A pack of 100 sleeves generally cost $1.00 and comes in two sizes. Use the narrower sizes for normal thickness cards and the wider size for thicker memorabilia cards. More often than not, placing cards inside penny sleeves can prove difficult and provides another opportunity to damage the corners of valuable cards. A neat trick is to snip off one of the top corners of the penny sleeve with a pair of scissors; doing so will allow collectors to place cards inside the penny sleeve with ease and minimize damage. Once the card is tucked neatly within a penny sleeve, they can be placed in a 9 card page or top loader.

9 card page - 9 card pages are the clear plastic pages that can be placed inside a 3 ring binder. These provide minimal protection but is nice for display. Be sure to place valuable cards inside penny sleeves beforehand as cards have a tendency to slide out of the page. In addition, be sure the pages are placed properly inside the binder and nothing is bent.

Top Loaders [b]- Top loaders are ever popular with collectors due to their rigid nature, affordability, and ease of use. Top loader comes in all sizes to fit cards of various thickness. Buying the correct size toploaders will minimize damage to your cards. Forcing a thick card into a thin loader will damage the edges and corners of the cards while thin cards placed in thick toploaders will slip out and become damaged.

[b]Team bags
- Team bags resembles penny sleeves but are longer, wider, and can be sealed on top. Team bags are great for holding a small stack of 10-20 cards. Team bags can also be used to protect cards inside of a toploader to prevent moisture from seeping in and damaging cards.

Screwdown/magnetic holders - These are the best technology in card protection and will cost about $2 per holder. Usually saved for the most valuable and premium cards, screwdown holders are hard and air tight. There is no need to use a penny sleeve if you plan on using on of these holders. Like toploaders, these also come in different thickness. Finding the right thickness will ensure that your card will not shift around in the holder.

Card collecting is a fun and rewarding hobby. Following the above tips will help keep cards in their optimal shape and protect your investments. Until next time, collect well and prosper!

Thanks to Shelton Yuen for a great article...

Yeah, that's the basics of card storage. Nice to have a refresher course, if you will.

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