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HOF debate: wanna hear opinions....contest as well
10-05-2012, 09:56 AM
Post: #21
RE: HOF debate: wanna hear opinions....contest as well
(10-04-2012 02:18 PM)motu79 Wrote:  I didn't think Frank was eligible until 2014. I do believe he's a 1st ballot as well no matter when it is Smile

He isn't. You are correct! I misread your statement.

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10-05-2012, 12:41 PM
Post: #22
RE: HOF debate: wanna hear opinions....contest as well
Before I start I want everyone to know I won't be offended if you agree or disagree with my player making the hall or anything like that. Don't be afraid to post the your honest opinion. All I ask is that all posts remain in good taste. Don't start trashing players or people for there comments.

I will turn this into a contest and anyone with a sour comment towards any player in this thread or towards any person posting on this thread will be disqualified. Also if you are not supporting your answer then your of no help.

The contest winner is not determined by answers as long as you support your answer you will be entered.

Here are the questions I'd like to hear opinions on.

1. Is Craig Biggio a first ballot HOFer? Support your answer please.

I would say yes to 1st ballot for sure. 3000 hits, almost 2000 runs, 1100 RBI, 7 allstar games, had a handful of silver slugger and gold glove awards and was just an all around great ball player. As a Cubs fan he always pissed me off because he was always on base. I think he had better stats that Sandberg too.

2. Is Jeff Bagwell a HOFer? I don't mean anytime soon necessarily. It can be 14th ballot for all I care. I just wanna know your opinions. Again support your answer.

I ink it will take a few years but he will get in. One of the greatest bats of the 90's and all time. I think what may hurt him is his strike outs but he also walked a ton and had a crazy OBP.

3. The only player with 3000 hits who has been on a HOF ballot and not currently made it in is Rafael Palmiero. Is he a HOFer? Do the steroid allegations end his chances? Did he even intentioanlly use? He to this day claims he never intentionally took them. Support answer!

I was a huge fan of Palmiero growing up and was extremely let down when his name came up in the steroid allegations, I will always wonder what his stats would look like if he was clean. Great hitter so I think he would have still reached 3000 hits but the power numbers would not have been the same.

4. Does Bert Blyleven deserve to be in the HOF? It took a long time and the numbers nearly said no then suddenly rebounded after many years to let him in. Support answer!!

He was a workhorse for middle of the pack teams, he pitched a lot of complete games but gave up a ton of homeruns. Could go either way.

5. Lastly, but certainly not least. Does my boy Frank Thomas deserve to be a HOFer? If he makes it will he be a first ballot HOFer? Support answer!!

Pure talent! Could you imagine how many awards and homerun titles he would of had if it wasn't for the steroid era?

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10-05-2012, 12:42 PM
Post: #23
RE: HOF debate: wanna hear opinions....contest as well
First off, let me apologize for the incorrect hit count for Bagwell, that certainly does deserve mention. Gets him just a little closer in my book.

Secondly, what are YOUR opinions on the questions you've posed? Just curious, as now the debate has gotten some weight to it.

Third, Mussina. After some research, I have to agree. His win/loss ratio is rather exceptional. Look at him compared to Blyleven, and my vote goes to Moose.

Thanks again.
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10-05-2012, 02:02 PM
Post: #24
RE: HOF debate: wanna hear opinions....contest as well
(10-05-2012 12:42 PM)ajcdj1012 Wrote:  First off, let me apologize for the incorrect hit count for Bagwell, that certainly does deserve mention. Gets him just a little closer in my book.

Secondly, what are YOUR opinions on the questions you've posed? Just curious, as now the debate has gotten some weight to it.

Third, Mussina. After some research, I have to agree. His win/loss ratio is rather exceptional. Look at him compared to Blyleven, and my vote goes to Moose.

Thanks again.

I do plan to post my opinion. However, I don't want it posted yet. It will be my final post when closing the thread.

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10-09-2012, 04:01 PM
Post: #25
RE: HOF debate: wanna hear opinions....contest as well
Just a friendly bump. This was starting to get buried under numerous other threads.
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10-09-2012, 09:22 PM
Post: #26
RE: HOF debate: wanna hear opinions....contest as well
(10-09-2012 04:01 PM)ajcdj1012 Wrote:  Just a friendly bump. This was starting to get buried under numerous other threads.

Yeah I was gonna bump but had a seriously busy weekend and a game tonight.

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10-10-2012, 01:12 PM
Post: #27
RE: HOF debate: wanna hear opinions....contest as well
1. Is Craig Biggio a first ballot HOFer? Support your answer please.
He will be close on the first ballot, but I think he will miss it but will eventually make it in. His 3,000 hits is what will get him there. The big reason he will miss it on his first attempt is that there are some voters who just aren't going to vote for anyone in the steroids era. Those on the edge may look at his lowered average after being injured in 2000, and then see that after recovering from the injury he went on to have a career high season in home runs at nearly 40 years of age (which could be viewed as a potential sign of steroid use). If he doesn't make it by his 5th ballot then he won't make it until either the veterans committee votes or the whole steroids saga is cleared and the voters in the press start voting for steroids era players.

2. Is Jeff Bagwell a HOFer? I don't mean anytime soon necessarily. It can be 14th ballot for all I care. I just wanna know your opinions. Again support your answer.
I think Jeff Bagwell is in the same boat as Biggio in terms of getting voted in. He has successfully gotten more votes each year so he may eventually get in, but I think it will be close until the veterans committee votes. Personally I hope both Biggio and Bagwell get in as they both had great careers and if neither had gotten injured their numbers would be even more impressive.

3. The only player with 3000 hits who has been on a HOF ballot and not currently made it in is Rafael Palmeiro. Is he a HOFer? Do the steroid allegations end his chances? Did he even intentionally use? He to this day claims he never intentionally took them. Support answer!
Palmeiro is an interesting case. He has the standard 3000 hits and 500 HRs that have typically given automatic entry to the HOF. However the steroid allegations are killing his chances. Whether he used intentionally or not is impossible to tell (he has no reason to ever admit to intentionally using, and every reason to deny it). The gist is that he used them and that makes his numbers tainted. Now if you delve more deeper into his stats you notice that when Jose Canseco (Mr Steroid, as I call him) joined the Rangers Palmeiro's yearly home runs almost doubled, and every full season he played thereafter he hit over 30 HRs. Prior to Canseco coming to the Rangers Palmeiro hit well for average but only had mediocre homerun totals. I think he may eventually get in if the veterans committee starts letting in a lot of the great steroids era players, but he won't ever be voted otherwise.

4. Does Bert Blyleven deserve to be in the HOF? It took a long time and the numbers nearly said no then suddenly rebounded after many years to let him in. Support answer!!
Yes he deserves to be in the HOF and should have gotten in sooner. His strikeout total alone should have gotten him in within his first few years of eligibility. He was a colorful player and his attitude may have kept him out for so long. I think if he had played for the Yankees or Red Sox for even a couple years he would have gotten in much sooner. I am glad that the sabermetrics boom helped him get in, because he deserves it.

5. Lastly, but certainly not least. Does my boy Frank Thomas deserve to be a HOFer? If he makes it will he be a first ballot HOFer? Support answer!!
YES!! He deserves to be in the HOF and to be a 1st ballot entry. However again the issue of steroids era numbers may hurt him just a little bit. I don't think he ever used them, but some voters will just not vote for anyone with high HR totals during the 90s. I think he will get in on the 1st ballot, but it will be closer than it should be.

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10-12-2012, 07:25 PM
Post: #28
RE: HOF debate: wanna hear opinions....contest as well
Getting buried again. Three pages back? Not so good. Bump!
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10-12-2012, 07:41 PM
Post: #29
RE: HOF debate: wanna hear opinions....contest as well
(10-12-2012 07:25 PM)ajcdj1012 Wrote:  Getting buried again. Three pages back? Not so good. Bump!

Your just excited to win. I am good with the number in the contest. I am just waiting for the prize to come in the mail.

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10-12-2012, 09:20 PM
Post: #30
RE: HOF debate: wanna hear opinions....contest as well
(10-12-2012 07:41 PM)dbroockerd Wrote:  Your just excited to win. I am good with the number in the contest. I am just waiting for the prize to come in the mail.

Hahaha, partly true, but I'm more interested in hearing done more opinions.....
Why, did I win?
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