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OT- UFC 151 Cancelled
08-24-2012, 01:44 PM
Post: #21
RE: OT- UFC 151 Cancelled
I didn't get a chance yet but machida is just as big of a joke now if not worse than jones . He had
Three weeks to prepare. Btw what on earth gives Belfort the shot at a 205 belt. Stann Weismann bisping Gustafsson sonnen should all be ahead of Belfort.
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08-24-2012, 02:36 PM
Post: #22
RE: OT- UFC 151 Cancelled
I mentioned Machida earlier and said if I was Dana he would go to the back of the line now. Yes, as would many other fighters who called Dana and asked to get on the card so that it wasn't cancelled. Anderson Silva called and said he would fight, after saying he wanted to rest of the year off, just to save the card. I am not discrediting any of the reasons that Greg Jackson laid out as why not to take the fight, but I think that it mostly him trying to cover for Jones, because he is already losing quite a bit of luster as of late. Chael is not "totally differnt" than Hendo.....he is lefty, Hendo is righty....but Hendo has way more power than Chael, and has never been knocked out before. Wrestling, even with age, Hendo could still role with Chael, and does all the time. Much stronger, I am not sure where that is coming from....younger and maybe faster, but seeing how Hendo has been knocking off guys at 205 and HW lately, I am not sure Chael is so much "stronger".

This isn't about "not doing what Dana wants".....this is about being a champion and stepping up when needed. I am not even saying that he is scared of Sonnen, I don't think he is.....I think he is simply scared of losing period. He is worried about his image in regards to win/losses and sprituality, but that mirror is cracking every week it seems. His publicist quit on him last week because he is hard to deal with. He has already made his money, has a small Nike sponsorship, and is under a lot of stress....but he just just seems to be going from a good guy to a diva. Maybe this is harsh, but it is being echoed by a lot of people. Diego Sanchez, another Greg Jackson guy out of the same camp even questioned this. A lot of other people have came out as well. Remember, Bones is the one that said he would never turn down a fight.....maybe he should have said on short notice.

I don't really have a reason to bash him, other than from a fan perspective....but the other fighters do, and they are coming out in pretty strong fashion on this one.


(08-24-2012 12:56 PM)mrhurtado17 Wrote:  i still dont see why everyone is bashing jones. guys u would really have taken the fight if you were in his shoes?? come on. chael fights southpaw so dont tell me he is like hendo. he is totally different and much stronger and at this point a better wrestler than hendo.

so jones actually takes a a few hours to think rather than just give into dana and we kill the guy. i really dont get the jones hating all of a sudden. and yea why can chael only fight him on 3 days (its not 8 days guys cuz training basically stops the last week with event interviews and etc they have to do the last days) and not on sept 22 which is still only like 18 days or so more after sept 1?

also why is no one bashing machida yet? i dont think anyone should but your arguments seem similar-if he wants a title he was offered it! lol

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08-24-2012, 04:32 PM
Post: #23
RE: OT- UFC 151 Cancelled
no way hendo is stronger than chael at his age. maybe punching is close but i mean overall grappling power. and come on hendo has fought some pretty weak guys lately except rua. cavalcante and sobral LOL!! and fedor on his way out of fighting. lets not get too excited now. and i actually like dan more than jones but he is on his way out shortly, too. i actually just sold most of my jones relics to syaney because he is not my fav but he is a top guy and fun to watch.

so why cant chael fight him on the 22nd?? oh yea because dana just wants the card, any card on sept 1 so he can make tons of $$ and not for the undercard guys. come on he could pay them still if he cared so much.

i also still havent heard if you honestly would have taken the fight? no way. and if u did would your "coworkers" on the undercard be a major factor? u gonna pay my bills when our work get slow and i lose hours to you because you are the better work ie. jon jones?

i love debating with you leedrane! not upset at all its all in fun bud! thanks man and hey i think your seminoles will rock this yr! i use to love them with charlie ward. im a ucla fan so lets not even talk football! haha

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08-24-2012, 05:15 PM
Post: #24
RE: OT- UFC 151 Cancelled
Hey man, no hard feelings here at all....I enjoy discussing this stuff.

Would I have taken it if I were Jones, YES.....he already had a camp, Sonnen will sell (which is what he supposidly wants in an opponent), and Sonnen is new to the weight class. Yes, co-workers are always a consideration for me. Most of the time I do extra stuff it is for someone else's benefit. Jones "losing money" isn't even a consideration if he takes the fight......if he loses he still isn't dropping off the radar. He is paid already, and will earn quite a bit more. But guess what, and don't think Dana won't do this.....Mr. Jackson, great school....all those guys training with you, unless they are already in the UFC or Strikeforce, they need to find somewhere else to compete because our doors just shut to you and your team. I am sure he will do something in order to make Greg Jackson sweat for a little while.

Chael wasn't offered the fight for the 22nd, Lorenzo offered it to Vitor and he is taking it....oh yeah, he is left handed and faster than Chael, but no where near a wrestler.

Of course the UFC wants the show to go on, they already have a ton of money invested in it, so why would they not want to get a return on that. I go out of my way for work all the time.....when I was in the Navy we didn't get "options" we knew what was expected, and we went with it. Jones knows that he has the belt and the UFC has invested plenty in him over the past two years, now he doesn't step up for them......it's his right, but it is UFC's right to remember this in the future. He burned a bridge....if he loses to Vitor or when he loses, I don't see him getting a rematch any time soon. Maybe he won't lose, and they will low ball him when it is time to negotiate a new deal.

Don't try and discredit Hendo just yet, how many times has Fedor been knocked out before? How many peolple has Soonen ever knocked out? Yes, he is on his way out......and has been doing it for over 15 years, so has plenty of experience. Chael is younger, faster, and still uses wrestling as his main offense, but that doesn't mean Hendo can't or wouldn't have done the same. As a matter of fact all he talked about doing with Jones is closing the distance and throwing him against the cage, just like Randy use to do, and like Chael does quite a bit.

I hope we can get into a nice bowl this year man......we have some young guys, and EJ is a good QB. I would feel better if he had another year to play with those young guys though.

(08-24-2012 04:32 PM)mrhurtado17 Wrote:  no way hendo is stronger than chael at his age. maybe punching is close but i mean overall grappling power. and come on hendo has fought some pretty weak guys lately except rua. cavalcante and sobral LOL!! and fedor on his way out of fighting. lets not get too excited now. and i actually like dan more than jones but he is on his way out shortly, too. i actually just sold most of my jones relics to syaney because he is not my fav but he is a top guy and fun to watch.

so why cant chael fight him on the 22nd?? oh yea because dana just wants the card, any card on sept 1 so he can make tons of $$ and not for the undercard guys. come on he could pay them still if he cared so much.

i also still havent heard if you honestly would have taken the fight? no way. and if u did would your "coworkers" on the undercard be a major factor? u gonna pay my bills when our work get slow and i lose hours to you because you are the better work ie. jon jones?

i love debating with you leedrane! not upset at all its all in fun bud! thanks man and hey i think your seminoles will rock this yr! i use to love them with charlie ward. im a ucla fan so lets not even talk football! haha

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08-24-2012, 08:10 PM
Post: #25
RE: OT- UFC 151 Cancelled
Ask Anderson Silva if Hendo is different than Chael, he walked through Hendo and almost lost twice to Chael. If I were Jones that would be enough right there for me to turn down that fight w/o preparation. Jones is a cerebral fighter and works hard on preparation, fighting is more like an art to him. Hes not a street fighter like a Tank Abbott, there is a reason why he is dominant and alot of it has to do w/game planning his opponent. Chael is the type of fighter who would do well in a short notice fight because of his toughness, I think it would have been a risky fight for Jones on short notice.
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08-24-2012, 11:09 PM
Post: #26
RE: OT- UFC 151 Cancelled
Dan Henderson won the first round against Anderson.....pretty sure he didn't walk through him. If anything Chael's second fight with Anderson was like Dan's fight with Silva. I like Chael, and he would be the first one to tell you that Dan Henderson is no slouch......I mean he has only trained Chael for how many years? Dan is a two time olympic wrestler.....Chael competed at Worlds.....I am pretty sure Hendo has the wrestling advantage. That being said, he is quite a bit older than Chael, but I am pretty sure you can't find a fighter out there that questions Dan's wrestling skills.

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08-25-2012, 12:13 PM (This post was last modified: 08-25-2012 06:13 PM by bwolvie1122.)
Post: #27
RE: OT- UFC 151 Cancelled
Yeah Dan won the 1st round by dragging him to the ground with a bodylock and laying on top of him for most of the round, in fact Silva controlled his posture and Dan never threatened him in that position, probably should have been stood up. Then the second round Silva walked through him. Either way Im sure everyone would agree Chael gave Silva a much harder time in both fights than Dan did. Couple that with the fact that for a standup fighter which Jones is, fighting a southpaw is much different prep than fighting a rightie, I dont blame Jones for declining the fight. I think Dana overreacted by cancelling the whole event, they could have got a main card fight to save the event. Did Jones say he wouldnt fight anybody on that short notice or was it just Chael? Did they call Vitor to see if he would fight him on the original event date, because thats the fight they now have headlining 152. I would like to know why Dana was "forced" to cancel the entire event.
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08-25-2012, 07:33 PM
Post: #28
RE: OT- UFC 151 Cancelled
So the fight that just happened with Chael and Silva wasn't basically the same thing in round 1? Chael didn't do much damage at all in the first round, but he controlled him, just like Henderson did. Outside of Silva, Bisping is the only person that I can remember that they both fought.....a case can be made that Bisping beat Sonnen, it was a split decision.....I am pretty sure Henderson walked through Bisping!!! Randy Couture said it best, Henderson is the strongest person that I have EVER grappled with. When he grabs you, you know it....he has wrestled since he was 5 years old.

The card was very weak, it had already had a couple of fights moved to other cards to fill in for other injuries, so it was depleted. Jones said he wouldn't fight anyone but Henderson. Lorenzo called Vitor after Jones said he wouldn't fight on the 1st. A lot of people stepped up and offered to fight on the card, but I am not sure that a new Main Event could have been made so quickly. They had already started filming commercials for Chael and Jones when Jones called back the morning of the press conference and said no to the fight. I heard, but am not sure about this, but since that was the main event and Jones was the champion or the "draw", per Nevada law he had to be part of the event or they had to hand out refunds. If it was further out, they would have had time to make changes.

Anyway, he didn't accept the fight, but if he didn't accept a fight on the 22nd he would have been stripped and possibly released from the UFC. That is what Dana hinted at during the conference call anyway. Now he is fighting a faster left handed stand up fighter.....and it should be a good card.

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08-25-2012, 09:16 PM
Post: #29
RE: OT- UFC 151 Cancelled
I found this quote from Dana interesting... "Dan Henderson has a partial tear in his MCL and couldn't continue. He tried to train, he continued to work out and saw a doctor, but there was nothing we could do to save that fight. So how long did Dana know this could be a possibility 2 weeks, 3weeks, maybe longer? Why was there no contingency plan other than hey Jon I know this puts you in a tough situation with no prep but please bail us out. I know you dont want the other camp to know about a possible injury, But how about Dana asking Jones about 2 weeks ago hey if for any reason we need you to fight somebody else on short notice would you be willing? Poorly managed... there needs to be a contingency plan, especially when you know ahead of time it may be a possibility.
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08-26-2012, 01:22 PM
Post: #30
RE: OT- UFC 151 Cancelled
Dan got hurt last Saturday or Sunday, tried to work through it.....Dana had him see the UFC Dr. and he said no way he could fight.....it was not stable enough. He got hurt, was checked out, and Chael was named a replacement, Jones said no....all of that happened in like 3 days notice. You can find articles on Yahoo or Sherdog that can confirm that. Two weeks would have been enough time to figure something out.....but it didn't happen 2 weeks ago. I do agree, and usually they have a back up plan, but this time the card had already been raided and Jones said he wasn't fighting anyone but Dan on this short of notice. After the event was already cancelled, Anderson called and tried to get added but it was too late. He would have fought anyone at 205 that wanted the fight......just bad timing all the way around. I get Jones's point, but at the end of the day stepping up for the sport and organization would have gone a long way for his fan base....and the respect of other factors. That being said, even Jackson himself said if he would have known the full story he may have advised differently. There are always two sides to these things....but for some reason whether it is from the UFC, other fighters, or fans.....on this one more peopel side with the UFC. It happens, hopefully he is able to be ready and has a great fight at UFC152.

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