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Debate on who's a better player Kobe or Lebron
06-11-2012, 10:05 AM (This post was last modified: 06-11-2012 10:30 AM by chrisa19978.)
Post: #21
RE: Debate on who's a better player Kobe or Lebron
(06-11-2012 06:00 AM)bbills1999 Wrote:  But if/when Lebron Wins his ring cant we also say he won them because he had Wade and Bosh to help him.. With them he wasnt winning them.

Yes but thats why its a team sport as no one can beat 5 people by themselfs and only one person can have the biggest impact on a team winning. Knowing what Lebron did the past series and how Wade played if it was not for him they would be home watching Boston play OKC. Kobe has always had a great supporting cast around him. Lebron till last year had no one and he still managed to make it to the playoffs every year and to the finals once with Clevland. My point with Shaq without him those 3 years where would the Lakers of been? Kobe could not take a team to the championship with 4 average players around him. He always had 2 to 3 great players and some decent players. No one wanted to go to Clevland so he had to use what he had. Look when he played for the Cav's it was Lebron vs. normally 3 great players and sometimes even more the further in the playoffs they went.
(06-11-2012 06:03 AM)edescartes Wrote:  You are choosing a rather difficult comparison. They play different positions. I understand your argument of Kobe not winning without Shaq, but then again who has won a championship without another all-star around him?? If we start from the beginning of the NBA Bill Russell had help during his 11 championships, Wilt Chamberlain had help, Magic Johnson had Kareem Abuld Jabbar and James Worthy, Larry Bird had Kevin Mchale and Robert Parish, Jordan had Pippen, Kobe had Shaq, Duncan had Robinson then Parker and Ginobili. Almost every multiple ring winner in the NBA has had a superstar next to him. The only team I can remember that won without two megastars were the Detroit Pistons in 2003 (Chauncey was the best player in that team in IMO). Winning a championship is still something very important to take into consideration. People that favor Kobe will have a very good comeback for you when Lebron wins a championship if you keep your mentality (LEBRON WOULD NOT HAVE WON WITHOUT TWO OTHER MEGASTARS, NOT ONE, TWO!! DWAYNE WADE AND CHRIS BOSH!!!!) I do not think Kobe is a better overall player, but his stats are more solid as of now. He has won more scoring titles, he has been to more all star games, he will play a few more seasons (we do not know if Lebron will stay healthy, in life nothing is certain). If Lebron stays healthy and wins at least two championships, then I would consider him a better player than Kobe. He has better defense and a better understanding of the again. His only problem, cluth!!!!!

Kobe wasn't clutch his whole career either and most of that came after he won a championship. What I hate is people bash him and compare him to Kobe and his 5 rings to Lebron still trying to get his first. People forget he played on a horrible team his first 6 or 7 year and this is only year 2 with a great team. But they bash him because he joined a great team and didn't win it by himself. Now he is expected to win 6 years in a row and if he dosen't he is a failure to people and they say Kobe is better which is far from the truth.
(06-11-2012 07:31 AM)newfiecomicguy1 Wrote:  I think Kobe is way more talented than Lebron, Lebron is just bigger. If I had to choose one (esp in their prime) I would take Kobe in a heart beat. I don't really like him but I think he is one of the best all-time.

Certain guys just find a way to win championships. They know how to finish off series and they just dominate when it counts. Jordan was the best at it but Kobe is another guy that gets it done. Lebron is still trying to figure it out. I love Ron Artest comments in the new slam magazine about his time with the Lakers. He said he would feed Shaq for the first 3 qtrs and than Kobe in the 4th. Basically it was Kobes game to finish as he was a master at it. They would give Kobe the ball and get out of the way and find a spot on the floor.

Kobe is not more talented and here we go with the size difference. Dosen't that mean Lebron should be slower and Kobe faster? If you just play in the 4th quarter then you can't be considered the greatest. Thanks for bringing up Michael Jordan as well because how long did it take for him to win his first championship? I believe it was 7 to 8 years but he was never critisized like they do Lebron. Jordan had his bad games and missed his shots as well. But I do consider Jordan to be better than Lebron. But with Lebron career far from being over who's to say he will not be considered better when his career ends.
(06-11-2012 09:53 AM)tristanrules Wrote:  The player that makes everyone else around him play better and raise their level of play.

That's the best player, Durant is far from the best player.
He is a glorified Ray Allen, and has accomplished nothing but overrated media praise.

Kobe is a better shooter? Not by a mile, does he take more shots? YES, but Lebron's percentage is much better.

Lebron just hit his prime, alot of people forget that.

If you have lebron, kobe and durant on a draft now, every single team would want Lebron over durant and kobe. Its a no brainer

But you can't get people to believe that because Lebron is either hated or loved after leaving the Cavs. I am sure we can pull up stats but people would still agure and there main arguement is Lebron is bigger and Kobe is clutch. This is all I have been hearing hear. I want Lebron to win because how they react to anything he dose wrong. God forbid him have 1 bad game as he will be bashed by eveybody. But if Kobe had a bad game they just talk about something else. Just like Wade who has played average of late he was not going to be blamed if they lost Lebron would have.
(06-11-2012 10:05 AM)newfiecomicguy1 Wrote:  If comparing them you need to use their prime. Lebron is in his prime Kobe has already peaked and is on the down swing of his career. Sure Kobe is still awesome but not the same as he was 5 years ago. Neither is in the same category as Jordan.

Why do people say Kobe is close to him. Even Jordan himself said this.

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06-11-2012, 10:38 AM
Post: #22
RE: Debate on who's a better player Kobe or Lebron
lol. I don't think it's that he's expected to win 6 in a row with this team, it's that he put that on himself. He may have been joking, but that was very pompous joking if you ask me. Before you have even played a single game or practice with your new team, you have a "coming of the King....and Bosh" celebration and then sit there and tell the crowd "...not 1....not 2.....not 3, not 4, not 5...", yeah, that's putting expectations on yourself and as soon as you show signs of not doing what you put out there, you'll get bashed for it.

Comparing supporting casts is almost pointless. It is by far a team effort, no one person can do it, but while someone might say Bill Cartwright is no Derek Fisher in terms of careers, they both highly impacted their teams when they were with them. Just like people will look at Tayshaun Prince's career and say he was a good role player, well he was a major contributor to the Pistons winning in 2004. So both Wade and Kobe have needed supporting casts to win theirs. Both had Diesel (though Wade had an older Diesel). Wade was the Finals MVP when he won it with Shaq (34.7 PPG for Wade). LeBron had Shaq as well, but again, he was older.

Here's a question for you. Say the Heat win a championship as the team they are now, whether it be this year or next year. Say Wade averages 35 PPG again and LeBron only 28 PPG in the finals. Say Wade and LeBron have similar stat lines on the other categories except for maybe rebounds and blocks. Say Wade hits three game winning shots in the Finals and overall, Wade wins Finals MVP. Will you use the same criteria for LeBron as you did for Kobe when you said Shaq won the MVP in the Finals during Kobe's first three championships? If not, why not? Kobe didn't have average stat lines when he played in those Finals, he was a major contributor.

If you want to compare two players to say who is better, imagine them playing one on one, who do you think would win. In terms of comparing LeBron to Kobe, that's not fair because of physique differences. Kobe vs. Wade is a better comparison. LeBron vs. Dirk is a good comparison (though sadly, I'd agree LeBron is more skilled).

Oh yeah, and going back to the Supporting cast issue, I love to look at the 2003-04 Lakers team. Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Karl Malone, Gary Payton and Derek Fisher vs. Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton, Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace and Tayshaun Prince. And the Lakers lost in 5 games. You're talking about a starting lineup of 5 possible HOFers (Fisher being the one least likely to get in, though I think he should) losing in 5 games to a team that MIGHT have 1 future HOFer (Wallace). That's why when everyone was sitting there thinking that the Heat were just going to rampage championships, I kind of laughed. Yes, Marlone, Payton and O'Neal were on their way out (though Shaq stayed a few years past his expiration date) and LeBron, Wade and Bosh all came in the same year (almost 10 years ago now), but that just goes to show you that you can have all of the superstar names you want, and it won't guarantee you anything. And Bosh really showed his importance in Games 6 and 7 of the last series. Yes, LeBron went off for 46, but coaching staff and players included admitted how important it was to have Bosh back. Doesn't mean Bosh is the better player, just that LeBron didn't do it by himself. Even with his 46, Boston still could have beaten Miami had Bosh not had such a big impact. At least that's my belief.

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06-11-2012, 10:44 AM
Post: #23
RE: Debate on who's a better player Kobe or Lebron
You guys are a bunch of Master Debaters

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06-11-2012, 10:56 AM
Post: #24
RE: Debate on who's a better player Kobe or Lebron
(06-11-2012 10:44 AM)bbills1999 Wrote:  You guys are a bunch of Master Debaters

You had to find a reason to say that since it's your birthday and you're home alone, right? Smile

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06-11-2012, 11:14 AM
Post: #25
RE: Debate on who's a better player Kobe or Lebron
OK, so many points are so wrong. First of all, HATED JORDAN, BUT with that said, NO ONE COMPARES TO HIM. He is an IDOL, a figure of the NBA much like Jerry West, what jordan did goes well beyond on court performance to be the best ever. Now, Kobe right now is NOT as good as Lebron hes aged, but still top 3, that says alot. His footwork is second to none, and when lebron gets old, i believe will not be able to develop that skillset. That makes Kobe better. Also its been said Lebron is a better shooter, AGAIN WRONG. Lebron's fg% is higher because he has the body kobe doesnt and can get close baskets and electrifying dunks, and with the exception of game 6, if hes not doing that he's average. If you look at the career breakdown of shots outside the paint and inside the 3 pt line kobe shoots 12% higher via NBA.com. Also, does kobe call himself the best before hes done anything to prove it, know he let us make that decision by seeing key performance after key performance year after year. Lebron put himself into the spotlight, claiming he is the best, conducting himself as a cocky punk before every game, throwing his chalk into the air saying im the greatest, and dragging cleveland through the dirt for an entire offseason just to be cocky once again proclaiming he would win 5,6,7,8 championships taking his talents to south beach? REALLY? You destroy any chance cleveland had at replacing you, by dragging it out all offseason, and then on top of that act cocky like that when joining a new team instead of being professional about it?!? Give me a break. Lebron has alot of growing up to do, TO BE THE BEST. IMO Durant is the ONLY person worth comparing to KOBE, LBJ has done tarnished his reputation, and imo being the best player goes alot farther than what you do on the court. MJ, Kobe, Durant. And one last point, quit saying if you put lebron on his team or kobe on his team or jordan on that team that anything would be any different, because it didnt happen that way, I could say put kobe on miami instead of LA and he would have got it done last year, but no i cant say that cause no one will EVER KNOW. thanks for your time.
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06-11-2012, 01:15 PM
Post: #26
RE: Debate on who's a better player Kobe or Lebron
No, Jordan said that the closet person for desire and work ethic to him was Kobe.....there is a difference. He didn't say talent or skill.

(06-11-2012 10:05 AM)chrisa19978 Wrote:  Yes but thats why its a team sport as no one can beat 5 people by themselfs and only one person can have the biggest impact on a team winning. Knowing what Lebron did the past series and how Wade played if it was not for him they would be home watching Boston play OKC. Kobe has always had a great supporting cast around him. Lebron till last year had no one and he still managed to make it to the playoffs every year and to the finals once with Clevland. My point with Shaq without him those 3 years where would the Lakers of been? Kobe could not take a team to the championship with 4 average players around him. He always had 2 to 3 great players and some decent players. No one wanted to go to Clevland so he had to use what he had. Look when he played for the Cav's it was Lebron vs. normally 3 great players and sometimes even more the further in the playoffs they went.

Kobe wasn't clutch his whole career either and most of that came after he won a championship. What I hate is people bash him and compare him to Kobe and his 5 rings to Lebron still trying to get his first. People forget he played on a horrible team his first 6 or 7 year and this is only year 2 with a great team. But they bash him because he joined a great team and didn't win it by himself. Now he is expected to win 6 years in a row and if he dosen't he is a failure to people and they say Kobe is better which is far from the truth.

Kobe is not more talented and here we go with the size difference. Dosen't that mean Lebron should be slower and Kobe faster? If you just play in the 4th quarter then you can't be considered the greatest. Thanks for bringing up Michael Jordan as well because how long did it take for him to win his first championship? I believe it was 7 to 8 years but he was never critisized like they do Lebron. Jordan had his bad games and missed his shots as well. But I do consider Jordan to be better than Lebron. But with Lebron career far from being over who's to say he will not be considered better when his career ends.

But you can't get people to believe that because Lebron is either hated or loved after leaving the Cavs. I am sure we can pull up stats but people would still agure and there main arguement is Lebron is bigger and Kobe is clutch. This is all I have been hearing hear. I want Lebron to win because how they react to anything he dose wrong. God forbid him have 1 bad game as he will be bashed by eveybody. But if Kobe had a bad game they just talk about something else. Just like Wade who has played average of late he was not going to be blamed if they lost Lebron would have.

Why do people say Kobe is close to him. Even Jordan himself said this.

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06-11-2012, 01:36 PM
Post: #27
RE: Debate on who's a better player Kobe or Lebron
(06-11-2012 10:56 AM)xstreaminsanity Wrote:  You had to find a reason to say that since it's your birthday and you're home alone, right? Smile

LOL you know it

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06-11-2012, 03:03 PM
Post: #28
RE: Debate on who's a better player Kobe or Lebron
(06-11-2012 11:14 AM)william2012 Wrote:  OK, so many points are so wrong. First of all, HATED JORDAN, BUT with that said, NO ONE COMPARES TO HIM. He is an IDOL, a figure of the NBA much like Jerry West, what jordan did goes well beyond on court performance to be the best ever. Now, Kobe right now is NOT as good as Lebron hes aged, but still top 3, that says alot. His footwork is second to none, and when lebron gets old, i believe will not be able to develop that skillset. That makes Kobe better. Also its been said Lebron is a better shooter, AGAIN WRONG. Lebron's fg% is higher because he has the body kobe doesnt and can get close baskets and electrifying dunks, and with the exception of game 6, if hes not doing that he's average. If you look at the career breakdown of shots outside the paint and inside the 3 pt line kobe shoots 12% higher via NBA.com. Also, does kobe call himself the best before hes done anything to prove it, know he let us make that decision by seeing key performance after key performance year after year. Lebron put himself into the spotlight, claiming he is the best, conducting himself as a cocky punk before every game, throwing his chalk into the air saying im the greatest, and dragging cleveland through the dirt for an entire offseason just to be cocky once again proclaiming he would win 5,6,7,8 championships taking his talents to south beach? REALLY? You destroy any chance cleveland had at replacing you, by dragging it out all offseason, and then on top of that act cocky like that when joining a new team instead of being professional about it?!? Give me a break. Lebron has alot of growing up to do, TO BE THE BEST. IMO Durant is the ONLY person worth comparing to KOBE, LBJ has done tarnished his reputation, and imo being the best player goes alot farther than what you do on the court. MJ, Kobe, Durant. And one last point, quit saying if you put lebron on his team or kobe on his team or jordan on that team that anything would be any different, because it didnt happen that way, I could say put kobe on miami instead of LA and he would have got it done last year, but no i cant say that cause no one will EVER KNOW. thanks for your time.

Lebron did the Cavs wrong I will not argue that but they didn't help themselves to keep him either. He begged for players and they didn't listen and grabbed someone else like his last year in Cleveland when Amare was getting traded he begged them and what they gave him Jamison of the Wizards. Then the fact that his teammate was sleeping with his mom and the team knew but did nothing about it. They could have told him and asked if he wanted him off the team being your franchise player. So I don't blame him for leaving though how he did it was not right the Cavs didn't treat him right for 7 years. You build around your franchise player and they did none of that. Now let’s talk about Kobe the cheater and snitch. So he gets caught sleeping around and his wife finds out what does he do (Well Shaq did it too). Yeah that’s real grown up throwing you own teammate under the bus because you got caught. Kobe has been cocky as well and Lebron has proven he is the greatest of his time. I believe Cleveland gave him the name King James and he stuck with it as he liked how it sounded. Point is neither is innocent and if Kobe just manned up and said he made a mistake Shaq would of retired a Laker and Kobe could be at 6 to 8 championships as he still had life in him when he left LA because of Kobe.

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06-11-2012, 03:26 PM
Post: #29
RE: Debate on who's a better player Kobe or Lebron
(06-11-2012 03:03 PM)chrisa19978 Wrote:  Lebron did the Cavs wrong I will not argue that but they didn't help themselves to keep him either. He begged for players and they didn't listen and grabbed someone else like his last year in Cleveland when Amare was getting traded he begged them and what they gave him Jamison of the Wizards. Then the fact that his teammate was sleeping with his mom and the team knew but did nothing about it. They could have told him and asked if he wanted him off the team being your franchise player. So I don't blame him for leaving though how he did it was not right the Cavs didn't treat him right for 7 years. You build around your franchise player and they did none of that. Now let’s talk about Kobe the cheater and snitch. So he gets caught sleeping around and his wife finds out what does he do (Well Shaq did it too). Yeah that’s real grown up throwing you own teammate under the bus because you got caught. Kobe has been cocky as well and Lebron has proven he is the greatest of his time. I believe Cleveland gave him the name King James and he stuck with it as he liked how it sounded. Point is neither is innocent and if Kobe just manned up and said he made a mistake Shaq would of retired a Laker and Kobe could be at 6 to 8 championships as he still had life in him when he left LA because of Kobe.

every athlete cheats, except for maybe tim tebow, LMAO. nothing else is even an argument. your bringing up personal lives, im telling you how lebron treated the only fans who were loyal to him. kobe doesnt have some ridiculous im the best pre game ritual either, and kobe has never quit on his team ever. kobe didnt tell everyone he was the best he showed it. lebron he tells everyone hes the best with nothing to back it up yet....we can talk paper all you want, but paper doesnt make a player great, it takes so much more than statistics....kobe and jordan just happened to have those too.
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06-11-2012, 07:03 PM
Post: #30
RE: Debate on who's a better player Kobe or Lebron
Kobe likes the pass the blame on others and never himself

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